Not at all saying we shouldn’t look into the abuse, but unless the victim tells someone, there’s no way to know it’s happening? I don’t really get what you’re suggesting here.
I’m suggesting that if the abuse is large enough that it swings entire elections, then it should be looked into as a why it’s happening vs saying we shouldn’t do something about voter fraud because something else might happen.
Spousal abuse is only one concern, also parent/child coercion (you’re an adult now, you can’t live in my house unless you vote the way I want). Another would be buying votes, and using the “receipt” to collect payment.
What’s stopping the abuser from demanding a photo of their filled out ballot? Idk why there’s a huge thread about this hypothetical. Are a certain point you can’t create policy defined by a tiny minority.
there are signs and staff everywhere ensuring that nobody takes photos of anything
and even if you could, you can request another ballot paper
Are a certain point you can’t create policy defined by a tiny minority.
and that is why we run elections like we do: because this system is secure and you don’t need to validate your ballot paper… when you introduce machines like the US has, that exposes huge flaws that poke holes in a very robust system for little gain
the tiny minority is validating your individual vote; not abuse and coercion
there is no way for anyone to prove how they voted, so there can be no possible retaliation
think about like… a mafia wanting to control a city government
if there’s no possible way to validate how you voted, they can tell a huge group of people how to vote and you can vote however you like and just say you voted like they wanted: they have no way of knowing either way (same goes for paid votes: they have no way of knowing how you voted so you can vote however you like)
if there’s a way to validate your vote, they can demand your voting slip (or number, or that you show them your validation record) and say they’ll break your legs if you don’t show it… so you vote and say the printer was broken, they’ll probably break your legs regardless (also they’d likely have a way of checking these things… in the case of an abusive relationship, they’d probably accompany you to vote so they’d likely know the status of any hardware like a printer - this isn’t something you can just lie about)
truly nasty organisations and individuals using violence as coercion aren’t likely to just “aw shucks guess i’ll let it go then”. they’re not particularly trusting
now in the current system with no way to validate directly, it doesn’t matter who it is: even the poll workers don’t see your ballot paper… nobody except you sees it. there are no cameras, no people watching over your shoulder, no proof either way after you drop your ballot into the box: you can say whatever you want, and because that’s the standard and known for everyone there no point to anyone saying “prove it”… there’s simply no way, thus there is no way of coercing someone
That would be nice. Hugely impractical. Especially with today’s government. Pretty sure no fault divorce is going to be revoked soon, so it’ll only get worse.
Also, was not suggesting that abusive relationships would be enough to swing the election one way or the other, only that this is a valid concern that needs addressed before any sweeping change.
Sure while this is a concern, why aren’t we instead looking into the abuse vs suggesting we no do something because of another problem?
Not at all saying we shouldn’t look into the abuse, but unless the victim tells someone, there’s no way to know it’s happening? I don’t really get what you’re suggesting here.
I’m suggesting that if the abuse is large enough that it swings entire elections, then it should be looked into as a why it’s happening vs saying we shouldn’t do something about voter fraud because something else might happen.
Spousal abuse is only one concern, also parent/child coercion (you’re an adult now, you can’t live in my house unless you vote the way I want). Another would be buying votes, and using the “receipt” to collect payment.
You could just burn your number then.
and then the coercion is simply you give me your number or i hurt you
there is no way that you can make a system where you are able to validate your vote after the fact, and also is safe from coercion
What’s stopping the abuser from demanding a photo of their filled out ballot? Idk why there’s a huge thread about this hypothetical. Are a certain point you can’t create policy defined by a tiny minority.
there are signs and staff everywhere ensuring that nobody takes photos of anything
and even if you could, you can request another ballot paper
and that is why we run elections like we do: because this system is secure and you don’t need to validate your ballot paper… when you introduce machines like the US has, that exposes huge flaws that poke holes in a very robust system for little gain
the tiny minority is validating your individual vote; not abuse and coercion
Or just say they ran out of paper. Like there are more pros than cons to this system. Nothing is going to be perfect.
and then you get hurt regardless… you think abusive partners or criminal organisations care of the printer ran out of paper?
What’s stopping them from doing this now?
there is no way for anyone to prove how they voted, so there can be no possible retaliation
think about like… a mafia wanting to control a city government
if there’s no possible way to validate how you voted, they can tell a huge group of people how to vote and you can vote however you like and just say you voted like they wanted: they have no way of knowing either way (same goes for paid votes: they have no way of knowing how you voted so you can vote however you like)
if there’s a way to validate your vote, they can demand your voting slip (or number, or that you show them your validation record) and say they’ll break your legs if you don’t show it… so you vote and say the printer was broken, they’ll probably break your legs regardless (also they’d likely have a way of checking these things… in the case of an abusive relationship, they’d probably accompany you to vote so they’d likely know the status of any hardware like a printer - this isn’t something you can just lie about)
truly nasty organisations and individuals using violence as coercion aren’t likely to just “aw shucks guess i’ll let it go then”. they’re not particularly trusting
now in the current system with no way to validate directly, it doesn’t matter who it is: even the poll workers don’t see your ballot paper… nobody except you sees it. there are no cameras, no people watching over your shoulder, no proof either way after you drop your ballot into the box: you can say whatever you want, and because that’s the standard and known for everyone there no point to anyone saying “prove it”… there’s simply no way, thus there is no way of coercing someone
That would be nice. Hugely impractical. Especially with today’s government. Pretty sure no fault divorce is going to be revoked soon, so it’ll only get worse.
Also, was not suggesting that abusive relationships would be enough to swing the election one way or the other, only that this is a valid concern that needs addressed before any sweeping change.