So this is where devils advocate comes into play. Pretty sure we all are agreed that this law, or anything like it, is ‘not good’. And I’ll leave it at that. Just keep that context in mind as I elaborate further.
Windows actually does do this on install. However, the Microsoft Family feature uses Microsoft Accounts. So technically, sure it’s not the OS (though it IS part of the OS, as you don’t need to download anything extra to enable it’s functions).
But you have to go out of your way now to do an offline windows install without a Microsoft Account. If you’re that savvy, you’re capable of monitoring your child without the help of big government. If you’re a child, then nothing but honesty is keeping you from jumping walls.
But that is windows, and this is Linux. Now I’m not making accusations, but do we really want to push the idea that this form of control needs to be pushed out across everything, simply because the current solution that would work for most families isn’t done at the “OS” level?
And to top it off, I don’t even see it working. Most family devices are set up on an account with a single login. Managing access is not a ‘one and done’ process, at some point you will have to provide permissions, install software, change active hours, approve screen time requests, troubleshoot related problems, and more (and soooo much more if your kid is technically adept). Is it no wonder that most parents just give kids free reign to their computers and consoles?
So before we go around and ruin the experience and privacy of everyone, can we at least ask what the people who want this have done instead? Cause it really does feel like it’s coming from a group who wants everything done for them.
I’m not sure exactly why people keep bringing up privacy concerns here. The law does not require collecting IDs or face scans. It requires os providers to add a screen where the account holder specifies the age or DOB of the user. The OS is not allowed to send that information to 3rd parties unless it is required by the law. And when they do need to send it, they are required to send the minimum information (just the age range, not even the DOB).
This law actually does more to penalize the parents that give their children free access to the internet. If the parent circumvents or enters the wrong age then they are penalized.
In addition it also forbids developers from asking for more verification data unless they are confident that your age range is incorrect. Which stops developers, for instance Discord, from requesting IDs without reason.
I do not think this law is written well at all. But I also would not mind more structure to how age attestations are done.
I’m sure many parents are capable of monitoring their children online. They either just don’t care or don’t think they should have to.
Fair on the privacy aspect, but again, I’ll point out that Microsoft Family already does the age bracket thing. I think how it’s done is slightly different, as software/websites have to disclose age groups rather than requesting it. Different sides of the same coin to be sure.
As for parents, I think it’s a mixed bag. I know a lot who are a mess at computers. Most don’t even know these tools even exist. Those that do, don’t have the time to do it properly (it only takes one night when your kid gets locked out of their account doing schoolwork due to screen time limits and your trying to troubleshoot why your approval to your kids request isn’t going thru via your phone, etc). But there certainly are also those that don’t care at all or feel they shouldn’t have to do it. It’s getting better though, I see a lot less young people with tech blindness every year.
I can sympathize with parents that don’t have time or don’t know that the tools exist. But this law (in theory) isn’t affected by that.
The screen is displayed to the parent on account setup so they don’t need to know it is there because it will be right in front of them.
Screen limits are not required by this law at all and are not even mentioned. This is just to keep children from accessing aps that says they are not for children. Ie. Facebook asks the users age range (<16 in this example). Then blocks the user since they are not 16+. Not sure why a child would need FB for school work so they should not be affected.
There is no clause requiring or providing an approval from parents. So if there is then that is the OS’s fault.
I theory the parents don’t need to setup controls per app because it is FB deciding what age brackets are allowed. And if they include the kids one and the child gets hurt online then FB would be liable. Not the parent.
So this is where devils advocate comes into play. Pretty sure we all are agreed that this law, or anything like it, is ‘not good’. And I’ll leave it at that. Just keep that context in mind as I elaborate further.
Windows actually does do this on install. However, the Microsoft Family feature uses Microsoft Accounts. So technically, sure it’s not the OS (though it IS part of the OS, as you don’t need to download anything extra to enable it’s functions).
But you have to go out of your way now to do an offline windows install without a Microsoft Account. If you’re that savvy, you’re capable of monitoring your child without the help of big government. If you’re a child, then nothing but honesty is keeping you from jumping walls.
But that is windows, and this is Linux. Now I’m not making accusations, but do we really want to push the idea that this form of control needs to be pushed out across everything, simply because the current solution that would work for most families isn’t done at the “OS” level?
And to top it off, I don’t even see it working. Most family devices are set up on an account with a single login. Managing access is not a ‘one and done’ process, at some point you will have to provide permissions, install software, change active hours, approve screen time requests, troubleshoot related problems, and more (and soooo much more if your kid is technically adept). Is it no wonder that most parents just give kids free reign to their computers and consoles?
So before we go around and ruin the experience and privacy of everyone, can we at least ask what the people who want this have done instead? Cause it really does feel like it’s coming from a group who wants everything done for them.
I’m not sure exactly why people keep bringing up privacy concerns here. The law does not require collecting IDs or face scans. It requires os providers to add a screen where the account holder specifies the age or DOB of the user. The OS is not allowed to send that information to 3rd parties unless it is required by the law. And when they do need to send it, they are required to send the minimum information (just the age range, not even the DOB).
This law actually does more to penalize the parents that give their children free access to the internet. If the parent circumvents or enters the wrong age then they are penalized.
In addition it also forbids developers from asking for more verification data unless they are confident that your age range is incorrect. Which stops developers, for instance Discord, from requesting IDs without reason.
I do not think this law is written well at all. But I also would not mind more structure to how age attestations are done.
I’m sure many parents are capable of monitoring their children online. They either just don’t care or don’t think they should have to.
Fair on the privacy aspect, but again, I’ll point out that Microsoft Family already does the age bracket thing. I think how it’s done is slightly different, as software/websites have to disclose age groups rather than requesting it. Different sides of the same coin to be sure.
As for parents, I think it’s a mixed bag. I know a lot who are a mess at computers. Most don’t even know these tools even exist. Those that do, don’t have the time to do it properly (it only takes one night when your kid gets locked out of their account doing schoolwork due to screen time limits and your trying to troubleshoot why your approval to your kids request isn’t going thru via your phone, etc). But there certainly are also those that don’t care at all or feel they shouldn’t have to do it. It’s getting better though, I see a lot less young people with tech blindness every year.
I can sympathize with parents that don’t have time or don’t know that the tools exist. But this law (in theory) isn’t affected by that.
The screen is displayed to the parent on account setup so they don’t need to know it is there because it will be right in front of them.
Screen limits are not required by this law at all and are not even mentioned. This is just to keep children from accessing aps that says they are not for children. Ie. Facebook asks the users age range (<16 in this example). Then blocks the user since they are not 16+. Not sure why a child would need FB for school work so they should not be affected.
There is no clause requiring or providing an approval from parents. So if there is then that is the OS’s fault.
I theory the parents don’t need to setup controls per app because it is FB deciding what age brackets are allowed. And if they include the kids one and the child gets hurt online then FB would be liable. Not the parent.