The head of Iran’s parliamentary committee on national security and foreign policy said that by providing drone support to Israel, Ukraine has “effectively become involved in the war.”
Zelenskyy earlier stated that Kyiv has already deployed interceptor drones and a team of specialists to help protect US military bases in Jordan.
“Holodomor” is a Ukrainian word. One they used to describe the Famine in Ukraine. I do not think it’s unfair, to separate their Famine, with the one Kazakhs had. Kazakhs were by large nomadic. By siezing their livestock for collectivisation, they all but sentenced them to death by starvation.
They were two completely different people, living two completely different lives. Affected by the same policy which was the major contribution to the famines.
They were two separate people, living in two very different places. If your only criticism is that you think “Holodomor” should encompass both. I’ll gladly change it it “Ukraine famine”
What kolaks burned in protest and sabotage was what was going to be taken from them anyhow. So rather than giving it up, they destroyed it. It would not have changed much of the outcome, because they wouldn’t have had it anyway.
I strongly disagree that my framing ignores the diplomatic reality.
non aggression between nazi germany and USSR. But I don’t think Poland would agree with the notion of “non aggression”
USSR absolutely did not know they would face the Nazi regime “alone”. Stalin was literally speechless when the Germans went into USSR. They didn’t carve up Poland to “secure Ukraine” or “buy more time” they did it to seize more land. It having the side effect of slowing down Nazis entry into USSR is nothing but coincidental. And neither excuses the execution of over 100 thousand poles.
As of later, why would Poland allow the red army to go anywhere in Poland? “Hey guys, we’re not gonna kill you this time, we promise, we just want to go to germany”. Can you honestly even remotely blame them for not allowing entry? Why would they believe anything nazis or USSR said?
I’m not reshaping anything. Both the Ukrainian Famine and the Kazakh Famine was deliberate to weaken them while strengthening Moscow. If events such as droughts occur. You don’t go ahead and sieze your initial quota to leave the population with nothing. That is purposefully creating a genocide by proxy of famine.
USSR and later Russia have a history of systematically weakening and eliminating ethnic minorities while strengthening the ethnic Russians, a history which is continuing to the present day.
The major contributor to the famine was environmental, as it was every other time that region experienced famine. My criticism is that the Holodomor presentation is disingenuous. It wasn’t a man-made famine from scratch and it clearly wasn’t targeted. Kulaks destroyed food that was being collectivized for redistribution. That absolutely would have helped feed people. They burned it because they couldn’t profit from it in the crisis. If they couldn’t have it, no one should. That’s not noble resistance, that’s sabotage that hurt the very people they claimed to represent. This is an ahistorical framing.
On the Nazi invasion: Stalin being “speechless” is revisionist folklore. Hitler’s intent to invade Russia was literal doctrine in Mein Kampf. Everyone knew it was coming. When France, Britain, and Poland refused every pact the Soviets put forward to stop the Nazis, to defend Czechoslovakia, to form a collective security front, it was extremely obvious what was next. The USSR wasn’t naive. They were preparing for a war they knew was inevitable because the West wouldn’t ally with them to prevent it.
You say the USSR didn’t expect to face Germany alone. That ignores the diplomatic record. Stalin proposed collective security repeatedly. He was rebuffed. Poland refused Soviet passage to confront Hitler. The buffer zone gained in 1939 did delay the Nazi advance. Whether that was the primary intent or a side effect, it happened. That’s strategic reality, not apologism.
On the famine again: if Moscow deliberately seized quotas to genocide Ukrainians or Kazakhs, why did the same policies apply to Russian peasants in the Volga, Kuban, and North Caucasus? Why did party officials in those same regions starve? Procurement quotas were brutal and badly implemented, yes. But they weren’t ethnically calibrated. The suffering was cross-ethnic because the crisis was structural and environmental, not a targeted hit job.
I’m not debating the deportations. They were bad. Full stop. But you’re twisting history to pad the list. Conflating distinct events, ignoring environmental factors, and erasing the agency of kulak sabotage doesn’t strengthen your critique. It makes it easier to dismiss. Call out the crimes, but don’t reshape the record to do it. Accuracy matters.
Not at all. You’re just actively choosing to dismiss it because you want to dismiss it. I’m not going to argue with someone that desperately want to rewrite history.
The Famine in Ukraine didn’t kill millions because of environmental factors. It’s because their produce was confiscated, and they were left to die.
I’m sure to have an excuse for the kazaks whose livestock was confiscated too, leading to their Famine.
It’s not just deportations that were bad. The active genocide was worse.
I don’t know if you remember checnya. But I do.
I’m not the one rewriting history here you are. It was one famine affecting an entire region caused mainly by environmental factors and worsened by policy failure (among other factors). It was not man made, it wasn’t targeted, it was still a tragedy.
Again because you keep doing this I don’t support the Checnyan wars, the deportations etc. like I’ve said every time you can say these things are bad without padding your list with twisted bullshit.
I think it was man made. Pretty much every single country in Europe recognizes it as a man made genocide. So I don’t think it’s twisted bullshit. The 40s can pretty much be summarised as Hitler and Stalin competing in who can kill the most people.
Soviet have committed genocide before 1944. And they have committed genocide after 1944. It’s hardly a stretch to call the forced confiscation of grains in Ukraine as the major contribution to their Famine.
Just like they confiscated livestock from the nomadic kazaks, causing their Famine.
Anythings possible when you make shit up
Yes yes. Everyone in Europe is just making it up because it’s fun to talk badly about the Soviets.
Though it must be difficult to see much of anything inside the tank.
You’re wrong. You’re running purely on vibes. “Oh it’s not a stretch… Id believe it… etc.” and you do double genocide theory (a form of Holocaust denial). I think this conversation has reached it’s natural conclusion.
Double genocide theory? Please elaborate. And how the hell is any of this related to Holocaust denial!?
But sure, me and pretty much every European country are just calling it a genocide from “vibes”.
I’m simply calling out your bullshit by mentioning how ridiculous it is to deny that genocide while acknowledging the others that happened right before and shortly after.
And you still have not offered a single excuse for the kazaks. Do you just not have one? Or do you acknowledge that man made Famine? Because those animals didn’t go and confiscated themselves.
👍
You were real talkative before. Or did it get more difficult now that you don’t have an excuse for how the kazaks Famine came to be?