Usually it’s considered pretty stupid to be proud of things you didn’t have a hand in. Why be proud of where you were born, when it was just random chance? I can see being happy or feeling privileged to be an American - that at least suggests what you’re appreciating is that it benefits you. Saying you’re proud implies that being from the USA is some sort of moral success and it’s just not.
“Usually it’s considered pretty stupid to be proud of things you didn’t have a hand in.”
Is it stupid to be proud of a friend when they accomplish something you didn’t help with, just because they are a part of your life and you want to see them succeed? Could that not be extrapolated out to pride in one’s country when it accomplishes something, even if all you directly contributed was your tax money?
“Why be proud of where you were born, when it was just random chance?”
Because the place I was born creates the circumstances in which I was raised, forming the environment that shapes my values, worldview, and culture. I don’t think I should feel like I deserve credit, but why not have pride in knowing that I have the opportunity to carry on the legacy and work that accomplished pride-worthy things in the past?
I don’t know if you want to call it something other than pride, but I’ve never learned another word for what I would feel if John Brown had been my grandfather. It’s not my achievement, nor would I feel entitled to it in any way, but it would make me feel warm and grounded. My actual grandfather was a wife beating alcoholic, and I feel shame about him, even though he died before I was born and I had nothing to do with this.
I think that’s pretty common, even if it’s not logical, which happens a lot with feelings. I know several people whose parent(s) died when they were teenagers and in a period of tension with each other. All agree that the others shouldn’t feel any guilt for being normal teenagers when their parents died, and that the other parents knew they were loved, but most of them still feel as though they themselves had wronged their parents because of their teenagedom.
Pride is not necessarily personal achievement - sometimes it’s identification or belonging. Our belonging to a group might be random chance, but endorsing the qualities of that group, shaping and participating in that group afterward are all active.
And frankly, no one needs to prove their pride to you. You’re not any kind of arbiter over whether people “deserve” to be proud of something.
You don’t think there are any good reasons to be proud of being an American? Why not?
Usually it’s considered pretty stupid to be proud of things you didn’t have a hand in. Why be proud of where you were born, when it was just random chance? I can see being happy or feeling privileged to be an American - that at least suggests what you’re appreciating is that it benefits you. Saying you’re proud implies that being from the USA is some sort of moral success and it’s just not.
I’m proud of being gay. Are you saying I shouldn’t be?
“Usually it’s considered pretty stupid to be proud of things you didn’t have a hand in.” Is it stupid to be proud of a friend when they accomplish something you didn’t help with, just because they are a part of your life and you want to see them succeed? Could that not be extrapolated out to pride in one’s country when it accomplishes something, even if all you directly contributed was your tax money?
“Why be proud of where you were born, when it was just random chance?” Because the place I was born creates the circumstances in which I was raised, forming the environment that shapes my values, worldview, and culture. I don’t think I should feel like I deserve credit, but why not have pride in knowing that I have the opportunity to carry on the legacy and work that accomplished pride-worthy things in the past?
I don’t know if you want to call it something other than pride, but I’ve never learned another word for what I would feel if John Brown had been my grandfather. It’s not my achievement, nor would I feel entitled to it in any way, but it would make me feel warm and grounded. My actual grandfather was a wife beating alcoholic, and I feel shame about him, even though he died before I was born and I had nothing to do with this.
I think that’s pretty common, even if it’s not logical, which happens a lot with feelings. I know several people whose parent(s) died when they were teenagers and in a period of tension with each other. All agree that the others shouldn’t feel any guilt for being normal teenagers when their parents died, and that the other parents knew they were loved, but most of them still feel as though they themselves had wronged their parents because of their teenagedom.
I’m sorry but this is incorrect.
Pride is not necessarily personal achievement - sometimes it’s identification or belonging. Our belonging to a group might be random chance, but endorsing the qualities of that group, shaping and participating in that group afterward are all active.
And frankly, no one needs to prove their pride to you. You’re not any kind of arbiter over whether people “deserve” to be proud of something.
Best of luck to you.