For example, in The Shield, the cop character Shane is super racist and says the N-word, but when a Black girl is killed, Shane gets really mad and wants to find and kill the killer or bring him to justice. Some CEOs who are straight-up classist would still help their employees, and if their employee dies, they would start funds for their kids. But why? Why would people like this do something ‘good,’ especially when there isn’t anything in it for them?
As others have pointed out, there’s no “black-and-white” (if you’ll pardon the irony) way of categorizing people. Bad or good people are fictional. Even the best of us have ugly parts to how we behave, and otherwise terrible people can show surprising compassion. Our values can conflict and in the moment we chose to do something wildly out of character, or indulge in impulses we didn’t even realize we had.
In the real world there are no absolute heroes or villains. A man who gave his boots to a homeless man one moment, could beat another to death a few months later. Human beings are wildly inconsistent.
There are objective good and bad people. They are just rare. Most people are in the bell curve, and the vast majority of us hold some racist/sexist/stupid beliefs… the issue is just if those beliefs align with our peers, then they are good, and bad if they don’t.
I witness people saying horrible shit all the time, but as long as it’s against the ‘bad people’ people think it is great and you are wonderful for saying it.
There are no objectively good and bad people. Never have been, never will be. Every one of us is a grab bag of contradictions. Objectively good people are not rare, they’re fictional. If you seriously look under the surface, we’re all both monsters and angels on some level. Some of us just have better self-control and/or fewer opportunities to be actively transgressive.
right, so criminal psychopaths and such are sometimes good people?
and someone who never harmed anyone in their life, must also be terrible in some way? they are just ‘lucky’ that life never goaded them into violence or hate…
you are clinging really hard to this relativism. i notice people who do that are usually shitty folks who are trying to normalize their history of repeatedly bad actions, like cheaters, drunk drivers, and folks with who are violent or abusive. it’s always people who repeated engage in destructive behaviors who want to drag everyone else down to their level, because they refuse to admit that they are terrible folks.
funny thing about my violent exes, they always took this relativist stance on ethics, because to them ‘good’ was only what benefited themselves and the notion there is something more important than them and their immediate feelings was considered evil to them.
I mean if your go to is to personally attack anyone who disagrees with you I don’t know why anyone would bother to have a serious discussion with you, but for the cheap seats I’ll try.
Yes, Criminal Psychopaths can, in certain circumstances be good people, other than the fact that they brutally kill some people. No mass murderer has ever been arrested that their neighbours weren’t standing there saying “but he was such a nice guy!” That doesn’t mean I don’t think they should be dealt with harshly, but the reality is, there are people who are good husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, and friends who also do absolutely monstrous things when no one else is looking. While we’re at it, there’s no such thing as someone who has never harmed anyone. We’ve all done things that hurt people, and no, just apologizing doesn’t make it all go away. Some harms are more serious than others but no one is blameless. There are absolutely people who tend more toward good, and some that tend more toward bad, but I’ve also watched “good” people rationalize and try to justify some absolutely wild levels of cruelty under the wrong circumstances.
Look, I get it, you’ve been through some shit. I’ve been there and the idea that some people are good and some people are bad and as long as you find the good people you’ll be safe is really comforting. Unfortunately it’s not true. There’s no such thing as someone who is always cartoonishly evil, and there is no one who is perfectly safe, not even you.
No I do totally understand. For you everything is relative, and everyone is equally innocent and guilty of all things at all times. That’s why it’s moral relativism.
Non relativism holds that certain acts are irredeemable, and that being nice to your kids wild murdering millions does not qualify you as ‘somewhat good’, anymore than getting a parking ticket makes a non-murderer ‘somewhat bad’.
It’s not a personal attack, it’s an observation that people who morally relativistic views tend to do some out of their own self interest in the world. Just like psychopaths and sociopaths overwhelmingly tend to be amoral. I don’t know any ‘good’ people who believe in moral relativism… and they rightfully avoid people who who are moral relativist.
There are tons of people who cartoonishly evil, do you read the news? Half of the USA political class are cartoonishly evil people, and lots of average citizens are as well.
We clearly live in totally different realities. You seem to like as long as Pol Pot was a nice guy to you, than you can’t condemn him as evil… lol And yeah, if that is your ‘truth’, why would anyone who actually believes in moral judgement want to associate with you? You basically are writing apologia for pedophiles, murders, abusers, and etc, and claiming they aren’t much different morally from people who are genuinely honest and kind to others and work towards making the world genuine a better place.
And now you’re completely characterizing my statements and lying to make yourself feel better. Good day.
Yeah I am characterizing them as what they are. You articulate a defense of moral relativism, via very pedantic argumentation that equates unpaid parking tickets with murder. And then claim nobody is evil…in a world where objectively evil people are doing objective evil things all the time.
But hey, I believe in an objective reality and objective morality. Clearly I’m a terrible person, to a moral relativist. Especially when I judge them and dispute them.
I also notice lemmy has a lot of fan of solipsism who like to argue that they are very smart because there is no reality outside of themselves and you can’t prove to them that there is, and that I am clearly and ignorant fool if I acknowledge there is something outside of my own feelings. A couple of entire instances have this as their credo.
Morality is not a bell curve. No one is absolutely good or bad, because what is good or bad is relative to the person doing the action and those observing it.
by that definition, as long as i asked someone to kill me, it’s a morally good thing.
Yes, that’s the whole argument for euthanasia. Glad I helped you to understand it.
or just manipulating people so you can murder them!