• BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Counter attacking with troops and killing the terrorist is a reasonable response.

    Leveling the entire hospital and surrounding neighborhood with missiles is NOT.

    • SCB@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Well it’s a good thing they didn’t do that, then. Israeli troops will be entering the hospital to get at the Hamas base within it

      Edit: they entered last night

      • Natanael@slrpnk.net
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        1 year ago

        And then you look at reporting from doctors without borders about doctors being murdered by snipers indiscriminately

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Weird that the IDF didn’t indiscriminately kill civilians while raiding said hospital last night, then.

    • ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      It’s less a hospital at this point and more an arms stockpile with some sick people left around as fodder/bad PR for anyone that would attack it.

    • galloog1@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Apparently not because Israel is getting torn apart in the information space for that approach.

    • galloog1@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Hamas is literally in this video firing missiles. The people on this site including yourself have your heads in the sand.

        • Ilgaz@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          When someone says “Being a governing leader is really hard” they don’t talk about parties or meetings, they talk about these decisions.

          • Kool_Newt@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Lines of logic where you don’t stop prematurely when you get your answer and instead follow through.

            • galloog1@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              At what point were hostages brought up? Are you referencing some misinformation I’m not aware of or prescribing to me someone else’s comment?

      • BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Hamas is literally in this video firing missiles.

        Yes they are. So kill them then without leveling the entire neighborhood, as I already said.

        • galloog1@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Go for it. If it is so easy you are welcome to go put yourself in harm’s way. Don’t criticize when you have not been faced with the decisions and a lack of full awareness. Hamas is not sitting out in the middle of a field waiting to be struck.

          • BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            It is neither my place, nor my responsibility to physically take part in this conflict. However, it certainly IS my place and responsibility, as a human being, to say that purposefully killing innocent civilians and blowing up functional hospitals is evil. Yes, even when there is a bad guy hiding inside.

              • dangblingus@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                So, in your mind, rules of engagement allow destroying civilian infrastructure that currently hosts many civilians so you can kill a handful of bad guys?

                • Hatsune Miku @lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Article 19 of Geneva states that if a hospital is being used to store military equipment and active military combatants, then it loses its protection.

            • galloog1@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              War is evil. Nothing they are doing is without military purpose. This is a justified conflict. Your perspective is naive and not based in reality and/or military law. Israel did everything they could to avoid this conflict, most of which has been misconstrued as genocide against Palestine.

              • crapwittyname@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Just wanted to point out a few factual inaccuracies in your comment.

                1. This is no longer a justified conflict. A state has the right to self defence in a limited way. The right to self defence does not override the rules on collective punishment. The right to self defence does not include the right to invade a state where the enemy is a terrorist group within that state, rather than the state itself. The right to self defence does not override the rules on attacking civilian infrastructure (especially ambulances) even where there is suspicion that a terrorist organisation may be using it. The right to self defence does not override the rules on forcible relocation or blockade. In short, the response to an enemy using a human shield must not be to eliminate the shield. It’s astounding that so many people seem to need this explained to them. This is borne out by international law, cf. the UN charters.
                2. Israel did not do everything they could do to avoid this conflict. The one thing they had to do was to abide by the Oslo accords, yet they have built settlements in Palestine every single day since signing, and restricted Gazans every single day since signing. The two state solution has failed as a result of Israel’s actions. In terms of actions since October 7th, the usual way to go about dismantling an embedded terror organisation is to use counterintelligence, ground ops and precision strikes. The reasons are obvious, I hope. The only way to get those hostages back is either by freeing them in covert ops or by negotiation at a political level. Destroying entire city blocks from the air will not get the hostages back, as we all know.
                3. The label genocide is not misconstrued, according to the UN genocide experts. Some say there is a grave risk that this is a genocide, based on the available facts, and some say that it already fulfills the criteria.
                  I can provide sources for all of my claims, if you’d prefer not to do the legwork yourself.
                • SCB@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Lol literally none this si accurate

                  How do you write so much and get everything wrong

                  • crapwittyname@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    It is accurate, and I can back it up with data. Is there anything in particular you think is incorrect? Or are you just annoyed with it in general.

                • Hatsune Miku @lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Hamas were the first to violate the accords. They launched an attack because they weren’t being included in the negotiations.

                  the usual way to go about dismantling an embedded terror organisation is to use counterintelligence, ground ops and precision strikes.

                  israel has been doing that for a few decades but Hamas continues to attack until they call for a ceasefire. In which Israel agrees, and then Hamas again breaks the ceasefire.

            • SCB@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              However, it certainly IS my place and responsibility, as a human being, to say that purposefully killing innocent civilians and blowing up functional hospitals is evil

              It’s your responsibility to actually know what is happening before you spout false things online.

        • galloog1@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Okay genius, how do you kill them when they are in tunnels under neighborhoods? You cannot get into them without an explosion, even if present in person and they won’t just sit there either. This is not a war crime and I’m really questioning everyone’s collective intelligence and ability to think through problems instead of reacting to stimulus.

          • dangblingus@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You don’t have to shoot missiles indiscriminately into civilian zones. If your enemy is hiding among civilian infrastructure and/or using human shields, you need to change your tactics up to suit. Committing war crimes in order to kill your enemy isn’t how you retain the moral highground.

            • galloog1@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I’m still waiting on these tactics you are recommending. Alternatives don’t exist so your argument is absolute bullshit. The faster they can get through this, the less overall civilian suffering will occur.

                • galloog1@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  What war crimes? There is a difference between war and war crimes and hardly anybody on this site knows the difference.

                  • SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    This site?

                    The perfectly homogenous lemmy?

                    I’m talking about intentionally targeting civilian population which is a defined war crime.

                    How do you figure it is not?

                  • crapwittyname@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago
                    • bombing civilian infrastructure which is likely to have families, children, non combatants inside is a war crime.
                    • collective punishment is a war crime.
                    • forcible relocation is a war crime.
                    • ordering civilians to a new area and then bombing them en route or on arrival is intentional targeting of civilians, and therefore a war crime.
                    • blockading a population within an area which you are actively shelling is a war crime.
                    • depriving a population of non combatants of food and water and fuel is a war crime.
                    • bombing a convoy of ambulances is a war crime.
                    • bombing a refugee camp is a war crime.
                    • killing reporters is a war crime.
                    • use of white phosphorus on civilian targets is a war crime.

                    Israel has done all of these things. There is no excuse for war crimes. It doesn’t matter how evil the enemy is, you are not allowed to do these things and not be a war criminal.

            • SCB@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              This is literally true.

              Specific protection of medical establishments and units (including hospitals) is the general rule under IHL. Therefore, specific protection to which hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used by a party to the conflict to commit, outside their humanitarian functions, an “act harmful to the enemy”. In case of doubt as to whether medical units of establishments are used to commit an “act harmful to the enemy”, they should be presumed not to be so used.

              Emphasis mine.

              • Natanael@slrpnk.net
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                1 year ago

                Proportionality is another factor you’re ignoring.

                They’re also still required to attempt to limit targeting to avoid civilian casualties and yet they don’t

                • galloog1@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  They do limit targeting. How many strikes are you seeing in the south as compared to the north? That’s a limitation and shows proportionality. You folks may not like it but this is categorically not a war crime.

            • galloog1@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              How do you take out the enemy? Answer the question. Your perspective is not useful when you have no alternative. They cannot access the tunnels without an explosive. Name a full conflict where civilian infrastructure was not hit when taking a city.

      • Ilgaz@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        I checked the Arabic news scene for “AI” and whatever they call Israel thanks to Google AI and Yandex translate. They label every single “negative” photo,video,audio AI as things created by Israel. Their heads aren’t in the sand, they are indoctrinated which makes the situation truly horrible. There were teenagers getting medals in Hitler’s last days. As a side-note I guess they are trying to bury your opinion like they do in the evil site not knowing this place was founded by FOSS ideals which they don’t have a clue about.

        • galloog1@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I don’t think there are media controls on Lemmy but it also opens it up to automated propaganda and manipulation.

          • Ilgaz@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I guess they try to “punish” user by downvoting whatever thing they don’t like.