Whether Trump’s actions constitute abetting insurrection is still an open question that will undoubtedly reach SCOTUS.
Regardless, and pragmatically, removing Trump from the ballots of states he would never win in the first place only emboldens the aggrieved right. It might feel nice to people that don’t support Trump, but roughly half of all voters DO support Trump. Even in bright blue California, 30% supported Trump for president. That’s roughly 1 out of every 3 people. In CALIFORNIA.
Removing candidates from the ballot is a dangerous game for everyone. Things will only change for the better if we do it the hard, annoying way: changing the minds of people that support him. Removing him from the ballot is not the way to do that.
While I do agree with you, nearly completely, one nit that I would pick is the implication that “the aggrieved right”, and the emboldening of same are a point of concern to be avoided.
At this point, I feel that the right, and the actions and positions they’ve taken, have removed them markedly from the realm of a worthy and respectable political bloc, even if one I rarely agree with, and moved them squarely into the realm of radical and destabilizing faction that pushes for goals which can and will permanently destroy the foundations of the democracy I stand for as an essential underpinning of personal liberty.
At that point, they deserve to be aggrieved, and I see pissing them off as a necessary by-product of preserving democracy.
They’ve chosen to place themselves at odds with democratic rule, not the other way around.
That being said, however, I feel it would be a bigger win for everyone if Trump loses the election while appearing on ballots than if he’s absent from ballots in battleground states.
Treating Trump with any sort of legitimacy is how we got here. We have laws designed exactly for him. He shouldn’t go on the ballot. The right is only emboldened because they’re constantly getting away with fucking everything, skirting the lines of the law if not outright breaking them. We should entertain him being on the ballot like we’d entertain someone who’s 20 or wasn’t born in the country – it’s absurd.
You are factually correct about “30% of the vote in CA”. But I think you are misinterpreting the data. PEW says that in 2020 96% of people voted strictly along party lines. PEW shows 30% of registered voters in CA are GOP or GOP leaning. Which means whoever the GOP candidate is would have received 29% of the voter REGARDLESS of who the candidate was. And before you point out the 1% “gain”, Biden “gained” 6% over registered DEM voters using the same metrics in CA.
(I sourced PEW because they were the first Google results that had the stats at the detail level I needed)
That’s a fairly long post that completely missed the point of what I said while needlessly parsing data that is mostly immaterial to the thesis.
The amount of time people like you spend trying to interpret polling data to support an unrealistic belief that things aren’t as bad as they seem then having the audacity to strike a pikachu-face as the extreme right continues to expand and the country regresses is embarrassing.
Things will only change for the better if we do it the hard, annoying way: changing the minds of people that support him.
Honestly, how? How do you possibly do this? They live in a bubble at this point, completely impervious to the facts. We have so much public information that would is absolutely damning that this guy is a criminal: the most clear being admitting on tape to mishandling classified information. Yet they don’t care. How do you get through to these people? If you have a good way, I would love to attempt it. But every attempt at debate I’ve had with these people is met with “you watch too much CNN” it’s a complete shut down to any type of logic.
I wish more people could see this, and understand it. It’s a bit shocking to me how little empathy people have. Empathy isn’t just about knowing when to give someone a hug- it’s also about understanding what makes some people angry (among other things). Removing Trump from the ballot in California would do FAR more harm than anything else.
While I absolutely see your point, and am even on the fence about it myself, I also see Trump as a huge threat to the country and the world. He’s made his intentions pretty well known at this time what he plans to do in his second term, and it’s basically dismantle everything. Couple that with the fact that he was probably only a few key people away from creating a constitutional crisis on Jan 6th, and using that as a reason to retain power. If he purges most of the government and puts in people loyal to him rather than the COTUS, it could go very bad for this country.
Additionally, it appears that nothing can convince his cultists that he is a bad person. It’s all out in the open: we have him bragging on tape to mishandling classified information (while not all that long ago they were chanting that a political opponent should be locked up for just that), we have him on tape - and other evidence - of pressuring an election official to overturn an election he lost, we have him - in violation of the law - withholding money appropriate by congress and then secretly calling the recipient of that aid and basically pressuring him into opening an investigation into a political rival.
I just don’t get how you could possibly convince these people that he is a bad person when we have so much blatant shit, right in front of us, indicating how bad he is and that only makes him more popular. They live in a bubble where penetrating it is impossible, or they are simply fascists who want this guy to be their god-emperor so it actually part of the plan.
The COTUS is designed to protect us from these types of people. . .and if we aren’t going to use when it’s so clearly appropriate, and just leave it up to chance of the misinformed public, what’s the point of it at all?
One thing which keeps sticking with me that was mentioned on another thread that I agree with, is precedence. If blue/liberal states start trying to remove him from their ballots, what’s going to stop the red/conservative states from trying to do the same for Biden?
It may just keep escalating to a larger bickering match between the states akin to children fighting over what channel to watch.
Whether Trump’s actions constitute abetting insurrection is still an open question that will undoubtedly reach SCOTUS.
Regardless, and pragmatically, removing Trump from the ballots of states he would never win in the first place only emboldens the aggrieved right. It might feel nice to people that don’t support Trump, but roughly half of all voters DO support Trump. Even in bright blue California, 30% supported Trump for president. That’s roughly 1 out of every 3 people. In CALIFORNIA.
Removing candidates from the ballot is a dangerous game for everyone. Things will only change for the better if we do it the hard, annoying way: changing the minds of people that support him. Removing him from the ballot is not the way to do that.
nope. fuck them.
I absolutely will not fuck any of them. I hope they all acquire a disease of the genitals that can only be cured with lye and sandpaper.
While I do agree with you, nearly completely, one nit that I would pick is the implication that “the aggrieved right”, and the emboldening of same are a point of concern to be avoided.
At this point, I feel that the right, and the actions and positions they’ve taken, have removed them markedly from the realm of a worthy and respectable political bloc, even if one I rarely agree with, and moved them squarely into the realm of radical and destabilizing faction that pushes for goals which can and will permanently destroy the foundations of the democracy I stand for as an essential underpinning of personal liberty.
At that point, they deserve to be aggrieved, and I see pissing them off as a necessary by-product of preserving democracy.
They’ve chosen to place themselves at odds with democratic rule, not the other way around.
That being said, however, I feel it would be a bigger win for everyone if Trump loses the election while appearing on ballots than if he’s absent from ballots in battleground states.
Treating Trump with any sort of legitimacy is how we got here. We have laws designed exactly for him. He shouldn’t go on the ballot. The right is only emboldened because they’re constantly getting away with fucking everything, skirting the lines of the law if not outright breaking them. We should entertain him being on the ballot like we’d entertain someone who’s 20 or wasn’t born in the country – it’s absurd.
deleted by creator
You are factually correct about “30% of the vote in CA”. But I think you are misinterpreting the data. PEW says that in 2020 96% of people voted strictly along party lines. PEW shows 30% of registered voters in CA are GOP or GOP leaning. Which means whoever the GOP candidate is would have received 29% of the voter REGARDLESS of who the candidate was. And before you point out the 1% “gain”, Biden “gained” 6% over registered DEM voters using the same metrics in CA.
(I sourced PEW because they were the first Google results that had the stats at the detail level I needed)
That’s a fairly long post that completely missed the point of what I said while needlessly parsing data that is mostly immaterial to the thesis.
The amount of time people like you spend trying to interpret polling data to support an unrealistic belief that things aren’t as bad as they seem then having the audacity to strike a pikachu-face as the extreme right continues to expand and the country regresses is embarrassing.
You should go into politics.
Honestly, how? How do you possibly do this? They live in a bubble at this point, completely impervious to the facts. We have so much public information that would is absolutely damning that this guy is a criminal: the most clear being admitting on tape to mishandling classified information. Yet they don’t care. How do you get through to these people? If you have a good way, I would love to attempt it. But every attempt at debate I’ve had with these people is met with “you watch too much CNN” it’s a complete shut down to any type of logic.
I wish more people could see this, and understand it. It’s a bit shocking to me how little empathy people have. Empathy isn’t just about knowing when to give someone a hug- it’s also about understanding what makes some people angry (among other things). Removing Trump from the ballot in California would do FAR more harm than anything else.
I agree with (you) and Newsome on this one
While I absolutely see your point, and am even on the fence about it myself, I also see Trump as a huge threat to the country and the world. He’s made his intentions pretty well known at this time what he plans to do in his second term, and it’s basically dismantle everything. Couple that with the fact that he was probably only a few key people away from creating a constitutional crisis on Jan 6th, and using that as a reason to retain power. If he purges most of the government and puts in people loyal to him rather than the COTUS, it could go very bad for this country.
Additionally, it appears that nothing can convince his cultists that he is a bad person. It’s all out in the open: we have him bragging on tape to mishandling classified information (while not all that long ago they were chanting that a political opponent should be locked up for just that), we have him on tape - and other evidence - of pressuring an election official to overturn an election he lost, we have him - in violation of the law - withholding money appropriate by congress and then secretly calling the recipient of that aid and basically pressuring him into opening an investigation into a political rival.
I just don’t get how you could possibly convince these people that he is a bad person when we have so much blatant shit, right in front of us, indicating how bad he is and that only makes him more popular. They live in a bubble where penetrating it is impossible, or they are simply fascists who want this guy to be their god-emperor so it actually part of the plan.
The COTUS is designed to protect us from these types of people. . .and if we aren’t going to use when it’s so clearly appropriate, and just leave it up to chance of the misinformed public, what’s the point of it at all?
One thing which keeps sticking with me that was mentioned on another thread that I agree with, is precedence. If blue/liberal states start trying to remove him from their ballots, what’s going to stop the red/conservative states from trying to do the same for Biden?
It may just keep escalating to a larger bickering match between the states akin to children fighting over what channel to watch.
I doubt that would happen, but I also never thought I’d see the day that human rights in the U.S. went backward, either