I’m not saying we don’t need to interact with them but economic size doesn’t tell me anything about their moral, ethical or political stance.
And I would suggest that pointing to a book describing political ideology as a means to justify how a political ideology is not subject to the same compulsions as every other human politician organization has in recorded history - and indeed how China has in modern history - is the very definition of idealism.
Are you planning to follow me around this whole thread humping my leg trying to get attention? I get it, you hate liberals. Move on bro.
Because after all the negativity and bad faith, and given the fact that we’re all talking past each other, I’m trying to decide if I care enough to attempt to back up and actually try to understand and/or come to a point of mutual perceived benefit.
And frankly I care much less if the person is notat the very least within my sphere of interest from a political and economic point of view. If the ideas they’re espousing have not chance of being implemented where I live, I care much, much less about who they are or what they think.
Well I’ll be honest you seem like the only one I can actually having a constructive discussion with, and I urge you to read some of the other replies to me that have insulted my family, suggested I’m a fascist apologist, or even told me to kill myself.
I don’t believe I’ve gone anywhere near that with any of my responses.
I hope you can understand that I’m not really seeing any upside to this anymore.
I’ve responded to about a dozen people, friend. I’m not going to rehash it here.
Which country do you live in?
What made you think I was Canadian
I didn’t, which is why I don’t see why I should care.
I’m Chinese in China all my life.
Uh yeah, and you think that China is superior and the rest of the world is full of failed humans and failed states. There is no good faith here. Why do you care to defend yourself or convince others?
We’re talking past each other, as I’ve said to many others on this topic. I’m willing to acknowledge all kinds of great things about China, including the decision in this article, but I’m fairly certain there is no reciprocity and in fact I’m sure you cover your eyes to many of China’s failings.
But I don’t need to impress you, I’ve got a great life, a good family and a job that makes me happy. Try as you might, you just don’t matter to me, which is why I said we should both just move on.
If you’re not Canadian why would I care what you think or do, and why would I waste energy on a discussion that is personally insulting?
kys
Oh yeah you’re a real decent human.
If you say so.
Cool quote. I like Sartre. I’ve used the “don’t believe in words” many times. And I’m not an anti-semite, just so you know. I’ve many Jewish people in my life.
But I’m not trying to redefine anything. I just don’t want to talk to you or anyone about it anymore.
To begin with, you should use the word ‘claim’ rather than ‘assume’.
You assume all intervention is violent
No I don’t. OP did when they hoped for increased militarism.
You assume international violence is imperialism, or creates imperialism.
No I don’t. Foreign military adventures are not always imperialism.
You’re starting to get to what I was claiming, which is that unchecked power backed by ideology convinced of its moral, ethical or political superiority will eventually aim to spread itself, likely through violence, military or otherwise. Marxism is no different, and the implementation of it in China is not showing any moral superiority beyond what I’ve seen in history from any other soon to be superpower, colonial or otherwise. We’ll soon see how that plays out in Taiwan I’m sure, which will be the next example of China’s ‘beneficence’.
I admit I didn’t read anything past your three points because your first two interpretations of my claims didn’t impress me (so I’m not really interested in how you rebut the claims you made up) and moreover this entire exchange with everyone has been insulting and lacking in any good faith whatsoever so I’m disinclined to attempt further discussion with anyone.
Your assertions here are that using violence against fascists is bad
Nope
Buddy if you’re not Canadian, then why would I care what you think? Thankfully your politics will have little purchase here. I suspect you know very little about my country and I know that you know even less about me.
On the topic of discussion, you don’t understand my central claim and frankly I’m not sure it would benefit either of us to reach any mutual understanding anyway. To start with, you use terms like ‘fucking liberals’ that doesn’t really suggest an inclination to deep thought on the concept of what a liberal is unless it’s in a portmanteau with the word retard.
Au revoir my special friend.
You’re insulting to me and my family, you know nothing about me, and we’ve strayed pretty far from the point, which was that any ideological regime given unchecked power will with very high likelihood eventually abuse it to spread their beliefs.
There isn’t any good faith left here. I didn’t attack you personally, and I don’t appreciate it from you.
Thankfully, as I said in another comment, although I strongly disagree with many aspects of how my country is organized, I doubt your view of how to organize a country will get much purchase here, other than the aspects which are beneficial and which we attempted to integrate, to our benefit. In fact I’m not even sure you’re Canadian so this suggests we have even less of a reason to carry on this discussion.
Have a great weekend, try not to hate your fellow countrymen, or indeed humanity itself, too much. You’re supposed to be presenting a morally enlightened regime after all. Not off to a great start.
You, or at least many of the other commenters that I was responding to, believe a Marxist regime is immune to abuse of power, in particular military strength, and would never enforce its will. I disagree with that, and I don’t need to invoke anything you call supernatural to hold that belief.
You’re right, if this is where we are, I’m not sure there is any discussion I would wish to have. And given the overwhelming animosity I’ve experienced, I’m guessing neither do you or any of the other commenters.
None of you have given me any indication of good faith, and quite a few have in fact made some rather abhorrent claims about me, someone they know nothing about.
We should collectively take this as an indication that there is no discussion to be had here.
Not what I said at all. I’m 100% for fighting back against ICE, and although I don’t believe going to war in the middle east is something Canada should do, I do believe in stopping all trade with Israel and treating them like a genocidal, criminal regime. That doesn’t mean we should go to war with them or hope to increase our foreign militarism in general, which is what the OP was saying and what I responded to. Moreover he claimed that somehow a Marxist state would be immune to abusing that power, and yes, that is naive.
If you don’t understand at this point, best to just move on with our lives. I don’t have any more energy or desire to explain it.
You clearly misunderstood what I said.
My family fought and one of them died fighting fascists, I despise them and would gladly rejoin the military to do so, even though I’m almost at the age cap.
How’s your history in this regard?
I’m not worried that you even understand what liberalism is, and I know for a fact you have no idea who I am other than my comment history. Yours, by the way, is not particularly impressive.
Who did you vote for in the last Canadian election?
And exactly what was the point of your insertion into this discussion?
Nothing about what you’ve said convinces me that a nation founded on or implementing Marxist Leninist or any other ideological principles is somehow immune to the drive to spread those principles through violence or expansion or whatever other explanation they come up with. I can appreciate that you believe that this system is perfect and would never be unethical or immoral, but I’m afraid I disagree with you, and moreover I don’t believe we a) start from the same fundamental values or beliefs, nor b) have enough goodwill to engage in good faith. Nor do I have the time or the desire to rectify any of that, even if I thought it would benefit me in any way to do it.
Thankfully for me, as much as I have problems with the way my country is organized (which you cannot know, and seem to have no desire to know), I strongly doubt your way of organizing the world will have much purchase here.
I’m moving on and I recommend you do as well.
Good lord man. I’m not having a philosophical discussion about idealism and materialism.
I’m not religious and I don’t believe in the supernatural, if you need to know. I’m by training an engineer, physicist and mathematician.
I also don’t believe that any ideological system can approach perfection, and I’m pragmatic enough to understand that if you believe that, it is borderline delusional.
I don’t think China has a perfect society and I expect I would not be happy there. I’m perfectly happy here with 3 kids, my pets, my wife (who owns a small business), a modest house and a family cottage, on a decent salaried job, in a country with a reasonable approximation of universal health care (I wish it were better), that makes attempts at regulating the excesses of capitalism with social programs and government oversight, that gives some freedoms in respect of rights, that values individual liberty and doesn’t get in your business on everything, that doesn’t overwhelmingly exert its will outside of its territory, that allows me to build a small consulting business and occasionally rent our cottage, that has a proud military history of which I have taken a small part, that is open to immigrants and ranks very high on multiculturalism and low on racism, that has enormous economic potential with one of the most educated populations in the world, that ranks highly in press freedom, democracy and economic mobility.
My country has problems, but you’re not going to convince me that I’d be better off under a government like China, or a Marxist ideal, even if I thought it would be possible to change this country without enormous violent upheaval in which, very likely, members of my family or friends would suffer and die.
And as I’ve tried to say since my very first words on this topic, you’re not going to convince me that a government organized according to Marxist thought will be - unlike every other human organization in history (that is, not ideal, but in practice and based on historical evidence and experience) - somehow a utopia that is incapable of oppressing people or attempting to exert its will on others who do not consent to it.
Having said all of that, my claims are clear. What is your objective in this discussion? Of what are you trying to convince me?