Also, I’m not blaming anyone or any government. I’m not speaking anything about self defense, other than that self defense does not entail violence against innocent people. I do not know enough of the topic or conflict to get into any of that. I am solely pointing out that blindly killing anyone and everyone in proximity of some wrong doing, regardless of their involvement in said wrong doing, is in and of itself wrong.

Are you implying that all Palestinian people are apart of “a terrorist organization”? You are beginning to come across as full on racist. At what point does “Justice” turn into terrorism in itself? How many innocent people is it “okay” to kill in the name of defeating a terrorist organization? It isn’t just “a terrorist organization” being killed.

Palestinian == terrorist. Hamas == terrorists. Killing hundreds/thousands of Palestinians in order to kill Hamas is not okay. Bombing a hospital filled with Palestinians is not okay.

Also, which is it? Is Hamas “a terrorist organization” or a government?

This isn’t Halo or Call of Duty. This isn’t “red team” vs “blue team”. This isn’t a game. There is no score to be tracked and no victory or loss for who can kill more children. The only people that are “losing” in this conflict are the innocent people caught in the crossfire.

The fact that you’re implying that it’s okay for Israel or Hamas to keep killing as long as they’re not on top of some sort of “child-killing leaderboard” is absolutely sickening. I’m literally sick to my stomach even thinking about that. I could not possibly care less who killed who’s child first, killing children is wrong. Killing innocent children in retaliation to killing innocent children is wrong. There’s no “score” to settle when that “score” involves the injury or death of innocent people. Both sides fucking suck for killing innocent people.

Furthermore, I’ll reiterate my point that both sides fucking suck for killing innocent people. That is the only absolute that belongs in this conversation. Neither side is innocent in regards to deaths of innocent people, and neither side is fully to blame for the deaths of innocent people. Hamas is at fault for using innocent people as meat shields and Israel is at fault for firing anyway. Whether Hamas struck first some weeks ago or not, regardless of which “side” started this however many years ago, both Israel and Hamas are culpable for deaths of innocent people. Full stop. No scores, no “winners”, and the only “loss” is loss of life.

And what does that change exactly? Definition: A government is a group of people governing an organized community. So if that organized community were a bunch of robbers or terrorists, and they had some others to govern them, they are by definition a government. If that government or organized community then holds you hostage, does that somehow make it different compared to if it were just a group of unorganized robbers or terrorists that didn’t have leaders? So just because some common criminals have a leader, making them a “government”, all of a sudden it’s ok to kill you along with them?

Let me simplify that. Gangs are governments by definition, i.e. an organized community with leaders. If you, your family, and/or friends were held hostage by a gang, you are saying it’s okay to kill you, your family, and/or friends in the name of killing off some gangsters. If that feels wrong then you need to rethink your opinion because that is a direct equivalence to what is happening between Israel and Hamas/Palestinians. Hamas are the equivalent to gangsters and Israel is the equivalent to the US government acting through the police to murder people you love in the name of killing off gangsters.

Let me answer that first question for you because I now believe you’re too thick skulled to figure it out yourself. The fact that it’s a “government” changes nothing in regards to another “government” killing innocent people.

Please note, I am not(!!) advocating for Hamas. What they have done and are still doing is fucking terrible. I condemn it with every fiber of my being. But to say that innocent people brought their own deaths upon themselves simply for existing on the wrong side of an imaginary line is fucked up. The only people that are “losing” in this conflict are the innocent people dying on both sides of the imaginary line. And if you can’t agree with that I’m done replying. Just because someone is Palestinian doesn’t make their deaths any better or worse than if they’re Israeli. Innocent civilians are innocent civilians regardless of which side of the line they’re on. I condemn any and all violence in this conflict. Both governments think they’re in the right and the only people that suffer are those caught in the crossfire. Full stop. May you find a little empathy, have a nice night, and a good life.

Edit: tl;dr ITT I try and fail to convey that terrorists using innocent people as meat shields/hostages is wrong and a government bombing those terrorists along with their hostages is also wrong. I dunno how that’s too confusing for anyone to understand but I guess some folk truly are lost causes.

Original comment below:

Are you implying that Israel has not done any bombing whatsoever? Or are you implying that terrorists hiding behind innocent people means everyone involved must die by bombing? Or are you just a troll trying to get a reaction from people by posting an obviously ignorant comment?

Let me ask you this, if some bank robbers took your family and friends hostage, what do you think the response should be? By your own logic I must assume that they all need to die because criminals were using them as meat shields. By your logic, if your home is being robbed and the robber uses you as a shield, the response should be to mow you down along with the robber. How unlucky for you that the robber chose your house eh? How ignorant.

And if you’re struggling to put yourself in those shoes, good. Be glad that you’re so far removed from such dangers. But you are not immune. Criminals and potential terrorists exist everywhere, and I truly hope that if you ever find yourself in a hostage situation that the response isn’t what you idolize for innocent people in a foreign land. Because even unemphatic scum don’t deserve to die simply for being a hostage.

I’d like to assume that you simply forgot a “/s”, and I apologize if the sarcastic intent of your comment was lost, but there are people that truly believe what you’ve said.

As long as our military budget is measured in trillions of dollars I think we can afford to feed even this scumbag on the . 0000001% off-chance that he’s not guilty. It kind of sucks, don’t get me wrong, but IMHO the death penalty isn’t the answer. Not only do I feel like even one wrongful execution is far too many, I also feel like in some ways a quick and painless death is sort of going easy. I say make him live out the rest of his natural born life as a prisoner that will have this on his conscious, provided he has one, for the rest of his days.

A quote from the judge according to the article:

“I just can’t believe being evicted would justify picking up a handgun in that small of a space with children present”

What I find particularly concerning about this is that this implies that being evicted would justify picking up a handgun provided you’re not in an enclosed space with children present. Why in the actual fuck would there be any further qualification after “I just can’t believe being evicted would justify picking up a handgun”. Full stop. You’re being evicted. You fucked up. Firearms don’t belong in that conversation at all with the only possible exception I can think of being if you are being directly and illegally threatened with a firearm.

Ugh.

Do you believe UN reports about the “Hamas aligned side”? Or is that just some big conspiracy?

And by your own words: “Deliberately targeting civilians is a war crime.” “Do you remember that refugee camp they hit yesterday?” I’ll even concede and say sure, let’s assume there were Hamas terrorists hiding in the refugee camp. Let’s also assume there was terrorist-supporting infrastructure in the refugee camp. Guess what though. IT WAS STILL A FUCKING REFUGEE CAMP!

Let that sink in extra slow through your thick skull. Read through several times if you must. They knew there were innocent civilians in a refugee camp. They also suspected terrorists in said refugee camp. If you think the best and only option was to bomb that refugee camp, you’re wrong and a monster. Or is it that you’re simply a racist that thinks that every Palestinian is a terrorist simply for existing on the wrong “side”?

Let’s say we find out that there’s some terrorists hiding out in your city. Is the only solution to bomb the city? Yourself, your family, and your friends included? Let’s say we narrow it down to terrorists hiding on your block. What’s your solution? How much “collateral damage” (innocent civilian deaths) is acceptable to root out the terrorism that exists in your home town?

Edit: I would like to add that yes, this is distracting from the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I would also like to add that I recognize that I do not know nearly enough about this conflict to speak with authority on the subject. What I do know enough about though is that not every Palestinian is involved with nor supports Hamas. And not every Israeli is involved with nor supports the IDF. There are many Innocent people that have died, and are continuing to die from both sides of this conflict. And every one of those deaths is a tragedy. I wholeheartedly condemn Hamas’ killings of innocent civilians, and I wholeheartedly condemn Israel’s killings of innocent civilians. Both sides fucking suck and the people that are truly paying the price are the innocent people dying and losing loved ones. I don’t know what the answer is, or even if there is a “right answer”. Maybe a special ground operation would have minimized loss of life? I don’t know. What I definitely do know is that I will never be okay with the deaths of innocent people.

Idk about OP but I’ve been ashamed of my country since at least 2016 2001 1990 August 6, 1945 the 17th century when “we” decided that land settled by Native Americans somehow belonged to us. I wasn’t alive for most of that time but I guarantee my country has done shameful things for muuuch longer than 24 days.

So so very close to piecing together why bombing a refugee camp even if there are terrorists or supporting infrastructure located there is a terrible idea.

I truly don’t know how you can recognize that Hamas wants civilians to die because it will strengthen their numbers, and still excuse the bombing of civilians. Perhaps you’re just trolling?

That is a fair point. I only skimmed a page of search results and a couple of articles, but I didn’t see any mention of weight measurements. That really could be a better way to measure “size” though. Assuming extra weight means more/better armaments, thicker hulls, more munitions, more sailors (and all of the supplies that go with them), etc. Not to mention how much weight a top-tier Air Force would add to a Navy’s weight. It’s quite staggering to think about and I’m sure I’m still not fully able to comprehend the sheer scale of it all.

I suppose a few trillion dollars per year will do that though 😅

I was curious if this was still the case and upon doing some research it seems that the stats regarding the “largest” Navies and Air Forces have changed in recent years. According to the Wikipedia page on US armed forces, it seems that the largest Air Force in the world is still the US Air Force, followed by the US Army Aviation Branch. The US Navy has fallen to the fourth largest Air Force in the world, while continuing to be the largest naval Air Force in the world.

Regarding Navy sizes, it seems that the US Navy has dropped to the fourth largest Navy in the world behind China, Russia, and North Korea (this one was rather surprising to me).

That said, the world’s two largest Air Forces still apparently belong to the US military. Furthermore, size does not necessarily equal power. Countries could inflate their numbers, or even presumably count vessels that aren’t what we would consider military vessels; e.g. pad their naval numbers by counting unrelated fishing boats as part of a Navy. When you factor in technology, training, and modernization of “old” equipment, it seems agreed that each branch of the US military is still the most powerful in the world compared to other countries respective military branches. And judging by the fact that the US military still has three (!!!) of the top 5 largest Air Forces in the world, as well as having each respective branch of its military in the world’s top 10 largest, I would hazard a guess that the power gap is quite large.