Peer reviewed science gets overturned by other peer reviewed science all the time, the other person also had peer reviewed science so you don’t get to just wave yours and win.

And yes your agenda is very obvious, you take the side of not wanting to be in a nuclear war - I think that’s pretty much a universally agreed upon position.

However you also have another facet to your opinion which is almost as universally disagreed with as your other position is agreed with - you think that science should be falsified so it seems to provide answers which suit your social and political aims rather than it being an effort to understand the world and reach a truthful and valid conclusion.

You were very aggressive and rude to someone who did nothing more than provide more context and dissenting evidence in a discussion about science, that’s not a good way to behave.

Who said it was an acceptable scenario? That’s not been suggested.

You’re saying we should belive any story that makes nuclear war sound even worse than it obviously is regardless of its scientific accuracy. Science should be objective truth not whatever serves the agenda you’re trying to push, even if it’s objectives are good.

Yeah, especially in the southern hemisphere, a few centuries later we might have slightly different genetics through rapid evolution via population collapse but we’d probably be back developing with a bit more accurate folk knowledge and probably actually a lot of remembered tech.

It’d be terrible to the people it happened to but barely a blip in the life history of the planet from the first evolution to the last lifeforms leaving or dying.

This sort of obviously emotionaly driven vitriol makes it look like you want people to belive this regardless of if it truth as you feel it serves an important goal. The other person on the debate has shown an understanding of the issue and history of this topic while remaining civil, I don’t see you counter any of his points or raise any evidence in your favor outside gishgallop links which you provide without explanation or demonstrated understanding.

I don’t know or really care who’s right because it’s meaningless but you certainly don’t look like the person with a valid position here.

It’s good to see so many people now recognize scientology for the dangerous and manipulative cult it is and hope this starts to extend to the others like Falun Gong who are objectively worse in many regards but their propaganda tools like Epoch Times and their show Shen Yun are bizarrely popular in the US and much of Europe with hardly anyone ever commenting on the torture, rape, murder, and all the typical evil cult stuff they do.

Imo joy division becoming new order was the right way to handle such tragedy, it’s different because Linkin park were a record company manufactured band but he was in from the start and pretty much the only person anyone recognized plus he wrote a lot of the songs.

Otherwise you get record companies selling you tickets to black flag thirty years later who might as well be a cover band, it’ll get to the point recognized names are still topping festivals a hundred years after the first original member died of old age. It benefits no one but corporate copyright holders.

I’d be interested in examples of what he watchs, it’s hard to know how to respond otherwise.

I think you’re probably worrying too much though, I watch all sorts of junk on YouTube largely because I enjoy finding out how other people think more than it constanrly changing my opinion - sure he’s young and doesn’t have the same level of awareness as an adult but also nothing in his life will actually matter for about 5 more years so a few bad opinions aren’t the end of the world.

When he says ‘I don’t know’ maybe you should believe that’s how he really feels, feed into it a bit and as painful as this might be for you admit that you don’t know either - life is full of confusing shit and honesty half the stuff I see I don’t even know how I feel about it or if it’s true, sane, or sensible. I’m sure he knows loads of interesting things going on in the world that you’re totally unaware of so let him tell you about it, be interested and accepting while in a non-dogmatic way rasising doubts where appropriate or simply tell a story from your own life that explains your doubts - not like ‘I’m old and know better’ but more friendly and demonstrating it’s normal to not know who to trust or what’s valid.

Positive reinforcement of doubt and distrust is important, demonstrate that you understand he’s learning about the world and its absurdities and complexities, laugh about some of it WITH him rather than making him feel like you’re saying ‘the stuff you watch is dumb and you’re dumb for watching it’ because understanding others is FAR more important in life than knowing the truth about obscure subjects, hard pill to swallow maybe but it’s true.

Your seven points you worry about are well and good but media doesn’t do that, politicians don’t do that, corporations don’t do that, life partners and lovers don’t do that, friends don’t do that, I bet YOU don’t do that… To live in this world we’ve got to learn how to take the important bits and leave the rest, we’ve got to learn why people do the things they do and that’s only possible with a big messy database in our heads of all the different types of people out there.

It sounds from the way you speak like you’ve given him a good grounding in logical, sensible, and scientifically literate discourse which is great but now his brain yearns to understand more of the world - why is everything so crazy and weird? why do people who seem nice sometimes do crazy and hurtful things? Why does this girl say such odd things, does she like me or hate me? These are questions you can only start to answer by understanding people and things you don’t believe in.

I listened to endless craziness like Alex Jones, 5Live, loveline, all sorts of brain rot shit - never once did I think Adam Carolla was anything but [string of words now forbidden] though he was funny, it was fun to listen to and entertaining, I learnt a lot about the world from callers and even Adam though he certainly never did a single one of your seven virtues.

Yes maybe the entertainment is more important than the content of their arguments, being able to know the truth is useful but being able to entertain friends, girlfriends, bosses and authority figures is what can turn a hard life into a great and easy one.

Part of the problem with arguments like that is if you say ‘trans women are not widely represented in women’s jails’ they can say ‘yeah but the left want to change that with self ID and all the other things they push for’ so really the only point you’ve made in their mind is that its good the people pushing these things aren’t in power.

Surely no one can deny that the lefts messaging has been that a trans person should be able to enter any gendered space without question? You never see trans advocates say ‘yes creepy men pretending to be women to gain access to female spaces is a legitimate problem which we intend to protect against by…’ they say ‘its not a problem, will never be a problem and anyone who says it might be is evil and stupid and bad’

Everyone knows a lot of men are creepy, everyone knows that there are rapists who if able to get put into a woman’s jail would jump at the chance - if one side is going to pretend these aren’t true simply because it makes the rest of their belief on the issue difficult to explain then that’s not on the normies who don’t accept it without question.

Up until the run up to the election the UK labour party for example pledged self ID legislation would be made law and there was huge outcry from trans advocacy groups when they changed their mind - you can’t argue that something you’re trying to make happen isn’t a problem because it doesn’t yet happen.

But the right loves Russia they’re super right wing, putin is even offering people free citizenship if they’re fleeing ‘woke western politocs’

Belligerence to Russia comes largely from the fact they invaded a neighboring nation

Also you can spend thirty seconds as a right winger and have them all tell you that you’re great, important, clever, worthwhile, and all those things – spend twenty years dedicating your adult life to leftwing values and you’ll still get spat on by your political peers because your opinion on some obscure issue is 2% different to theirs.

The sad truth is that the right are pandering to homophobia because it’s a vote getter for them not because they really care about it.

A huge portion of religious people believe that homosexuality is an especially dangerous sin because it’s a social contagion, they see the increased popularity of gay things and the decreased respect for religion as a clear sign that the devil is winning and faithful, godfearing society is collapsing. To an extent they’re right, modern views on self determination and respect for others is anathema to Christian society as it’s been for over a thousand years - to the faithful it’s like saying the sky is pink or fish live in trees.

There are of course now grifters using homophobia to draw people into their political ideologies but it’s generally people from homophobic families in homoohobic communities that get drawn into it, it’s easy to forget that when you see a twenty something year old kid making homophobic comments it’s likely at his age his dad was going ‘queer bashing’ for fun with his friends and certainly wouldn’t have hesitated to beat up a gay person in a bar or in the street if encountered.

Even big artists like Eminem had deeply homophobic messages in his music, now that’s backtracked and he’s friends with Elton - this isn’t entirely because he’s grown as a person but because at the start of this century it was unconscionable that rap or hip hop could be anything but homophobic. School kids used the word ‘gay’ to describe uncool or disliked things so commonly it was even part of my own vocab despite being raised in a progressive and accepting family in a liberal area.

Things have changed so much just in my adult lifetime but it’s not universal, a lot of religious and conservative people see the ‘gay agenda’ exactly as you see the ‘homophobic agenda’ in that they believe it’s political narrative being pushed just to destabilize morally virtuous power structures to allow corrupt and evil people to take power and steal money.

Companies that shoehorn a poorly written gay character into everything for the sake of inclusivity feel like a pandering cash grab to me but to the homophobic Christian it feels like asymmetric warfare from a deranged and selfish elite hellbent on ruining western society.

It’s a hugely complex issue for me, I honestly have no idea what the best thing for the greater good is. Forcing things too hard can be painful for those unready which causes resentment and reaction but holding back and allowing non-violent homophobic behavior to exist in our society is hurtful to those struggling to find snd accept themselves. (For example being 17 and trying to reconcile popular music explicitly talking about how your unexplored sexual desires are disgusting, realizing you have to make the choice between humiliation and self denial - and this is probably a big part of other emotional troubles which can lead to rejection of otherwise sensible social norms leading to unhealthy drug use, self endangering behavior and other things that still have lasting damage to my life to this day)

I don’t know what will solve these complex issues in our society, maybe making certain concessions to mildly homophobic sections of society would stop driving them into full on culture war crusaders? Maybe highlighting that it’s not only possible but probable to be gay and boring would help ease the anxiety? I actually kinda think straight pride type events and companies pandering to heterosexuals could be normalized and accepted more - not in a way that pits them against everyone else but more of a everyone gets a party kinda way. Stop heteros feeling attacked or at least make those who want to paint that picture looking silly.

It’s sad to admit but humanity is naturally kinda selfish and shitty, bigotry and group thinking is as natural and easy to us as breathing while compassion and understanding takes effort and the right circumstances to flourish.

So now it’s demonstrated this can’t be true was it a lie and if so why? If not then what extra details make it plausible?

Fund an open source project to make something useful that helps make life cheaper and easier for regular people

It’s like all rhose.facebook memes ‘a boy in Switzerland invented a brand new idea to help the disabled, sticks you can use to support your weight when walking!’ And the comments are people amazed by it.

I saw one where Finland inventes raised pathways made of wood so people can experience.nature without getting their feet muddy - europe has had raised track ways for at least 6000 years!

Why should everyone live exactly how you want them to?

Can I do an audit of your life and switch everything over to how I think you should live?

You’ve invented your own nonsense system that isn’t anything like how anyone uses the word.

Yeah, couldn’t agree more. He doesn’t sound like he even likes women, just feels he should own one and probably wants regular sex (on his terms only). I almost feel guilty writing a post trying to help him.

‘I never want to make it obvious’

This is a huge red flag to women, what you’re essentially doing is trying to create a power imbalance where you maintain the safe and defended position of acting not interested while they take all the social risk of putting themselves out there. This gives you a much better position in any conversation or disagreement and it allows you to hold the power of humiliation over their head - a situation no one wants to be in.

The fact you’re targeting women in this way that you feel are more attractive than you exacerbates it because it makes it seem that you don’t really care about them at all and just want to tick the hot gf box.

People often say that women hit on men in happy relationships and this is somewhat true but not because they’re horny homewreckers but because the guy has stopped acting creepy and manipulative towards them and just seem like decent normal people. When you say you don’t flirt what you mean is difficult to tell because you’re obviously targeting these women and talking to them, even asking them out and getting rejected apparently so I don’t know what you’re actually doing but it’s not acting normal, friendly, and like you consider them anything but a target to throw your Pokeball at.

No one, including you, wants to date someone that doesn’t make them feel good and add to their lives in a positive and joyful way - in what world does ‘you’re hotter than me therefore I want you as a possession I can have sex with’ make someone feel any of those things? That’s the vibe they’re getting when you refuse to give them even just flirting, who is going to say ‘oh i met this guy, he’s cold to me and makes me kinda feel awkward I can’t wait to spend more time with him’

Make someone feel good, enjoy spending time with you, and demonstrate that you’re the sort of person worth getting to know better - which by the way includes being open to self change and personal improvement. Let them see that they will be happier in a relationship with you than not being in a relationship with you.

And this means also that you have to find someone that will be happier in a relationship with you, women aren’t interchangeable and they exist on a much more complex scale than ‘hot body = value’ which is where your head seems to be stuck, looks are one of the least important parts of a relationship which is lucky for a skinny ballet arms boy like you… you need someone you can talk to, can laugh with, can feel safe with, can grow and explore with.

And yes if you don’t want that sort of relationship and want a woman that only cares about outward appearance then get jacked and earn a shit load of money, seems like a miserable life to me but I’m in love with a fat woman (who I admit is very attractive) because we understand each other and support each other and enjoy each other in ways I never even knew possible - we bonded over shared interests, fell in love over long and tender conversations, and worked through difficulties by being honest and caring.

Also we don’t really know why they did it, could have been religious or a punishment for all we know

It’s more than just funding science it’s funding education and social systems that enable people to participate, it’s a culture of mutual uplift rather than a free for all deathmatch, it’s a community that instead of feeling resentment for any success anyone else has shows support and seeks to learn from them.

It’s weeks since I saw a thread on lemmy which wasn’t attacking and shitting on anyone doing anything, sure government funding is important but it’s not the only thing that matters.