It is not a misunderstanding of the intentions so much as they are playing by the old rules where you do not call something for what it is out of polity.

An old decorum only exercised by the weak Democratic establishment now.

The Republicans do more than call out for what it is, they lie and accuse you of being the problem for their own perversions. But our Democrats refuse to even truthfully call a problem.

Well do not stop there, you should explain why the other side doesn’t get more votes. Because the opposition party is worthless at best. Being better than the other guy has never been enough to comfortably win elections and we already knew that but that is the only thing we are offering. The way to get elected is not to be half as Republican as the republicans, it is to be Champion popular reform and loudly fight for it. To call out villains by name, to have a, to have a fucking spine.

We are doomed with this same opposition party and Power and they are despite the last election. We should all agree that’s a failure. Nobody answers for that? We allowed the same power Brokers to do the next one?

Most of the referendum laws sponsored by voters are Constitutional Amendments that take an extra supermajority of 3/4 I think to overturn them. Others like Florida it is just statutory law and when they passed that law allowing felons to vote the lawmakers just jammed it up with other laws so only like 200 of them were registered to vote election time.

Vassals of the US, and by extension of the connected organized owner class, of corporations. Government is the middleman and the rich control them all.

There is a carrot, It is corruption. There is so much going on behind the scenes right now with these guys. Any carrot would be self-serving by the administration obviously. The president has made 3.6 billion dollars he would not have since he got re-elected, that we know about according to some journalists that looked into it recently.

The amount they have made under the table in deals through surrogates is surely a lot more than that. For reference it is estimated that Putin is the richest person in the world in reality.

The truly great see money as a means to an end, these guys see money as the end.

If payments out of pocket were reasonable maybe we are charged like a hundred times what everybody elsein the world pays.

Investors like private equity have taken over Health Care and are extracting the life savings of baby boomers for medical care that used to cost a reasonable amount of money.

Need multiplayer.

He did not support abolition until well into the civil war look it up.

He removed missouri’s general or whatever keeping them from joining confeds for endorsing the idea in fact.

Regardless that same party abandoned the former slaves to steal an election after rampant corruption.

So any example of the civil war era is also disallowed by your logic. It was not perfect so therefore your example can be discredited.

Lincoln did not even want emancipation at first, and grant was corrupt and let his admin loot the government, then abandoned reconstruction to jim crow in a deal to get to keep the 1876 election they stole from tillman for hayes.

That republican party? Hardly.

Yet you do not indulge my question, give me one example that cannot be dismissed with your logic dismissing the new deal?

Yes anytime the new deal is brought up the detractors say that minorities were discriminated against, so, nothing they did counts. Defective logic, nothing anyone did ever would count using that logic.

Give me one historical example where you could not find injustice to negate using an example from? Just one. Nothing now would count. Nothing in us history.

Using that argument is telling of where your head is at, perhaps actively stymying resistance, to accelerate the decline mistakenly believing something better would replace it. That is the more charitable take on your use of that argument too.

My point is we organize and take the dem party, strong leadership that can build and run a pol machine, we could get back there in 2029, assuming r’s are too busy infighting and too disenchanted to steal an election they clearly lost. All state level cheating still losing the election that is and congress and scotus not granting it to the loser anyway.

I don’t know what you think you are even arguing here. I know the system can work because it did work. In the post-war years until the 1970s. Only after business started to cooperate on a long game to undo the New Deal did it all go to shit. Piece by piece. In 1972 the business Round Table made a long game and it has since been refined.

I don’t agree with your analysis of what I am saying here. Wanting a restoration of the Republic is not playing Make-Believe, it is not surrendering.

Obviously we already talked about the rules not being honored, nobody is making believe they are being honored on this thread.

But within the rules of the government we have we could fix the government and Society. It is just a matter of getting good leadership to get us there and organizing behind them.

Yeah I know it is only getting worse by all indications.

Allowing a foreign intelligence agency to get blackmail on our politicians is in open Defiance of the reason for being of the FBI and CIA.

They clearly have their priorities screwed up, and by All Rights should live the rest of their lives in a work camp on the North Slope of Alaska building public housing for the inuit.

So what is your point? Because we got corrupted politicians that dishonor the highest laws of the land, what? We should not try to see those laws ever enforced? Just give up and accept it?

The 1st ammendment begs to differ.

I realize you are regurgitating The preposterous legal arguments of the lawmakers that have passed these laws but that Legal reasoning is laughable as it is for So-Called civil asset forfeiture Where the fifth Amendment against seizure of private property without due process does not apply because they charge your property not you. The State verse your wallet and car.

These are clearly bad faith ad hoc arguments they are making.

Well also keep in mind that the Israelis have our politicians compromised, not just on the Epstein stuff, probably a range of issues, and seemingly our CIA and FBI did nothing to stop it if not more likely helped them do it.