Since 15 September, IFTAS has been tracking a coordinated network of accounts operating across Mastodon. These accounts are engaged in a high-volume propaganda campaign, promoting pro-Russian narra…
I wouldn’t call them that. Most if not all of them are genuine people with some having accs for many years before Reddit crossed the line for most of us and them becoming anyhow relevant to interfere. In a recent hexbearean post about fediverse negativity I’ve read a couple of opinions with a notion that federating with others wasn’t that great, and they were pretty happy just by themselves. I assume, it’s the same for other two too. That’s a game too long and effortful to be a psyop imho. Their positions and where they get their info are things to argue, but let’s not get as far as dehumanizing them.
Almost everywhere I soundly proclaim that I am a russian dummy anarchist, that I live in that state for I have no options, and I angrily disagree with their fascination, mystification of what it is, I hold a grudge with anyone who wants that russki mir to be the model the whole world should share.
I, nevertheless, find a lot of points, like personal stuff and grieveancies, theoretical things, sympathy to protesters, to Gazan survivors that I share with them. Unlike transparently racist/fascist troll comms that were there, unlike their campaigns I’ve noticed, there is a huge population of real people worthy of talking, arguing with.
Call me any names and ban me, but as long as any person or community is supportive of basic pillar causes like body autonomy, you, like, can at least talk to them and find something in common.
What I missed though, is that Diva said the same, but misleadingly doubted the existence of russian bot networks. Them and state suppression ruined the rusophonic space to that degree I dropped it altogether. I don’t know how their actions affected other countries, but as a nolifer shitposting addict trying to trust them just a bit, I came through fire, water and copper tubes before dropping them altogether. They are like current Twitter, but worse. And, well, fuck, I wasn’t abandoning that to find the next option already corrupted.
To be honest I didn’t understand the thrust of most of what you wrote, but if you are against the Rusky Mir, you are probably on the right side to begin with. If you are an anarchist, you probably have no place on .ml to begin with.
Remember every time we find Putin backed propaganda outside of Russia in the wild, it’s nearly always boosting predominantly conservative viewpoints versus anything else.
Outside of their borders they’re more interested in people fighting with each other than anything like coming together. Right wing politics is how they do that
Sorry, but this is wrong. They’re also actively sponsoring “left wing” propaganda, to further sow discord. Depending on which group you yourself belong to, it’s just easier to spot “the others”.
Rumors and smears are part of free speech. To the extent that right-wing trolls and their audience are actual voters, it’s essentially just a coarse form of ordinary political speech.
The extent to which a foreign government acting coverly is either creating or artificially boosting such content is scandalous.
True enough. But even a tyrannical government at least has a presumable intent of working for the betterment of its country. (Albeit through wrongheaded and small-minded means )
A.foreijgn power, especially a historical adversary and bad actor, is instead presumably working to harm or diminish us.
No, they have the intent of working for themselves. That’s it. They don’t give a shit about the country and you should never presume the ruling class of your country has your country’s best interests in mind.
You presented it as proof that Russia is supporting misinformation on the left. To be that, it has to both include all three parts of the claim – that there is disinformation on the left, that Russia is covertly supporting disinformation, and that some of the disinformation on the left was supported by Russia.
If your wife sleeps around, and I engage in casual sex, it does not necessarily follow that I slept with your wife.
A common suspicion in America is that Vladimir Putin believes that Trump as POTUS is good for Russia, and that Putin interferes with US politics with a specific goal of helping Trump.
If you have some reporting that directly links Russia to left-wing disinformation I’d love to read it. But the BBC article I read after following your link didn’t have any such link.
When you make a statement it’s your responsibility to provide proof because what if you’re talking out of your ass? How would we find any proof in that scenario when it literally wouldn’t exist? How would we know if you misinterpreted a source? How would we know we misinterpreted the correct source? What if we think what you’re saying is so stupid we don’t want to waste our time looking for proof? There are a lot of reasons the burden of proof shouldn’t fall on us, which means the burden of proof should fall on the person who made the statement. They know if what they said is factual and if it’s factual they know where they found this fact and thus it would be significantly less effort for them to find and present the source.
Better. That actually supports the assertion that Russia does engage in left-targeted disinformation (in Canada, on Twitter.)
It also supports the original point you dismissed as “wrong” – of the 90 “most influential” accounts, only 9 were subjectively identified as “Canadian far left”.
Maybe you should spend more time reading the actual articles, and not just their headlines?
There seem to be plenty of other papers that more or less reach those same conclusions with a good number of citations, but I can’t find anything really at all on Google Scholar concluding the opposite with a quick search, let alone something also credible.
The closest some papers come is saying that they try groups all over the political spectrum, as their goal is disunity ultimately, but they seemingly don’t really have any kind of continued success with misinforming those groups anywhere near as effectively. They more or less all end up concluding that most of the propaganda targets conservatives, because they’re the ones that fall for it.
I think one of the problems with citing that first study as evidence Russian disinfo is targeted at conservatives more than liberals is that it only studied one case, and Russian disinformation campaigns tailor their disinfo to different demographics, often through brute force/trial and error. So it is quite possible that the particular case they studied happens to be tailored to (or more successfully resonated with) conservatives, while another specific case would have resonated with liberals more thus resulting in more liberal exposure by their metrics.
Your assertion that more is conservative is a meaningless assertion in the context of this discussion.
More can be conservative on average but you don’t see an average view of the internet, you see your filter bubble, and that source backs up the original assertion that yes, Russia is targeting leftists too.
Absolutely and utterly false. They try and promote fighting, anger, and distrust of government to everyone.
They target leftists with things that will upset them, make them angry at the right and the government and other leftists and sow further discord and polarization.
Less extreme Leftists generally aren’t nearly as likely to be control freaks as the right (although there are always exceptions), so getting them (as a group) angry enough to fight takes much more effort than it does the right.
There is literally no one I know in the real world that feels that way. Pretty sure the alt left and alt right you mention both speak Russian as a first language.
.ml is moderated to be ideologically one sided. Pro-capitalism is literally not allowed and will deleted. Making a pro-west or anti-China or Russia comment is like a bat signal for .ml admins and users alike to dogpile on your comment.
It’s their right to moderate their instance how they see fit, but removing content on ideological grounds is going to result in people thinking what’s left is propaganda.
For the most part I like .ml users, I don’t care for the admin team and moderator decisions and that’s why I’m not on that instance. I could care less about the fact my instance is defederated from hexbear users or grad users. They do want to be polarizing and live in a propaganda bubble
Yeah it’s called Lemmy.ml, hexbear, lemmygrad.ml
I wouldn’t call them that. Most if not all of them are genuine people with some having accs for many years before Reddit crossed the line for most of us and them becoming anyhow relevant to interfere. In a recent hexbearean post about fediverse negativity I’ve read a couple of opinions with a notion that federating with others wasn’t that great, and they were pretty happy just by themselves. I assume, it’s the same for other two too. That’s a game too long and effortful to be a psyop imho. Their positions and where they get their info are things to argue, but let’s not get as far as dehumanizing them.
Almost everywhere I soundly proclaim that I am a russian dummy anarchist, that I live in that state for I have no options, and I angrily disagree with their fascination, mystification of what it is, I hold a grudge with anyone who wants that russki mir to be the model the whole world should share.
I, nevertheless, find a lot of points, like personal stuff and grieveancies, theoretical things, sympathy to protesters, to Gazan survivors that I share with them. Unlike transparently racist/fascist troll comms that were there, unlike their campaigns I’ve noticed, there is a huge population of real people worthy of talking, arguing with.
Call me any names and ban me, but as long as any person or community is supportive of basic pillar causes like body autonomy, you, like, can at least talk to them and find something in common.
What I missed though, is that Diva said the same, but misleadingly doubted the existence of russian bot networks. Them and state suppression ruined the rusophonic space to that degree I dropped it altogether. I don’t know how their actions affected other countries, but as a nolifer shitposting addict trying to trust them just a bit, I came through fire, water and copper tubes before dropping them altogether. They are like current Twitter, but worse. And, well, fuck, I wasn’t abandoning that to find the next option already corrupted.
You don’t have to be aware that you are a Russian asset/propagandist to be one. A couple useful definitions
Intelligence Asset Useful Idiot
You’ve ignored whatever I said to drop a one-line generalized response, not an organic one, and didn’t elaborate why it relates to what I said.
Isn’t that a behavior of a useful tool you alert others against? I don’t assume you are one. But I get some vibes you don’t act in a good faith there.
To be honest I didn’t understand the thrust of most of what you wrote, but if you are against the Rusky Mir, you are probably on the right side to begin with. If you are an anarchist, you probably have no place on .ml to begin with.
Bro trust me I’ve been around since the start, it would be less weird if they WERE paid.
I never claimed they were paid ;-)
Remember every time we find Putin backed propaganda outside of Russia in the wild, it’s nearly always boosting predominantly conservative viewpoints versus anything else.
Outside of their borders they’re more interested in people fighting with each other than anything like coming together. Right wing politics is how they do that
Sorry, but this is wrong. They’re also actively sponsoring “left wing” propaganda, to further sow discord. Depending on which group you yourself belong to, it’s just easier to spot “the others”.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-39592010
Your article doesn’t seem to mention Russia once.
Rumors and smears are part of free speech. To the extent that right-wing trolls and their audience are actual voters, it’s essentially just a coarse form of ordinary political speech.
The extent to which a foreign government acting coverly is either creating or artificially boosting such content is scandalous.
realistically speaking our own governments are way more involved with manipulating our media than the ‘foreigners’ as people love to fearmonger about
True enough. But even a tyrannical government at least has a presumable intent of working for the betterment of its country. (Albeit through wrongheaded and small-minded means )
A.foreijgn power, especially a historical adversary and bad actor, is instead presumably working to harm or diminish us.
No, they have the intent of working for themselves. That’s it. They don’t give a shit about the country and you should never presume the ruling class of your country has your country’s best interests in mind.
Feel free to read any other article that does, if you somehow have managed to avoid learning about russian influence campaigns over the last decade.
You presented it as proof that Russia is supporting misinformation on the left. To be that, it has to both include all three parts of the claim – that there is disinformation on the left, that Russia is covertly supporting disinformation, and that some of the disinformation on the left was supported by Russia.
If your wife sleeps around, and I engage in casual sex, it does not necessarily follow that I slept with your wife.
A common suspicion in America is that Vladimir Putin believes that Trump as POTUS is good for Russia, and that Putin interferes with US politics with a specific goal of helping Trump.
If you have some reporting that directly links Russia to left-wing disinformation I’d love to read it. But the BBC article I read after following your link didn’t have any such link.
This is the third time I post this paper in this thread: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00207020241257635
There are plenty more. You spent more time writing your post than it takes to find them.
When you make a statement it’s your responsibility to provide proof because what if you’re talking out of your ass? How would we find any proof in that scenario when it literally wouldn’t exist? How would we know if you misinterpreted a source? How would we know we misinterpreted the correct source? What if we think what you’re saying is so stupid we don’t want to waste our time looking for proof? There are a lot of reasons the burden of proof shouldn’t fall on us, which means the burden of proof should fall on the person who made the statement. They know if what they said is factual and if it’s factual they know where they found this fact and thus it would be significantly less effort for them to find and present the source.
Better. That actually supports the assertion that Russia does engage in left-targeted disinformation (in Canada, on Twitter.)
It also supports the original point you dismissed as “wrong” – of the 90 “most influential” accounts, only 9 were subjectively identified as “Canadian far left”.
Maybe you should spend more time reading the actual articles, and not just their headlines?
Maybe someone wants you to think that Russian influence campaigns are a problem and so they feed you articles.
Primary sources tend to disagree
Here’s a study from 2019 about it that backs up my assertion that more is conservative https://academic.oup.com/joc/article/69/2/168/5425470
And of that propaganda being created, that conservative inclined people are most likely to fall for it: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20563051231220330
There seem to be plenty of other papers that more or less reach those same conclusions with a good number of citations, but I can’t find anything really at all on Google Scholar concluding the opposite with a quick search, let alone something also credible.
The closest some papers come is saying that they try groups all over the political spectrum, as their goal is disunity ultimately, but they seemingly don’t really have any kind of continued success with misinforming those groups anywhere near as effectively. They more or less all end up concluding that most of the propaganda targets conservatives, because they’re the ones that fall for it.
Both sides fall for it, just not equally.
I think one of the problems with citing that first study as evidence Russian disinfo is targeted at conservatives more than liberals is that it only studied one case, and Russian disinformation campaigns tailor their disinfo to different demographics, often through brute force/trial and error. So it is quite possible that the particular case they studied happens to be tailored to (or more successfully resonated with) conservatives, while another specific case would have resonated with liberals more thus resulting in more liberal exposure by their metrics.
Your assertion that more is conservative is a meaningless assertion in the context of this discussion.
More can be conservative on average but you don’t see an average view of the internet, you see your filter bubble, and that source backs up the original assertion that yes, Russia is targeting leftists too.
Primary sources tend to agree
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00207020241257635
Might it be that you’re commenting based on what you want to be true?
Oh you think they just stopped? Did you bother to verify for yourself?
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00207020241257635
Absolutely and utterly false. They try and promote fighting, anger, and distrust of government to everyone.
They target leftists with things that will upset them, make them angry at the right and the government and other leftists and sow further discord and polarization.
Less extreme Leftists generally aren’t nearly as likely to be control freaks as the right (although there are always exceptions), so getting them (as a group) angry enough to fight takes much more effort than it does the right.
Leftist movements are literally known for infighting and falling apart, it’s the subject of countless memes.
That is why I specified “less extreme,” but yeah, that’s fair.
The right is already doing that by themselves.
The whole world is not America.
Only if you dont recognize places like Canada as the vassals they are!
Tankies have literally adopted the same rhetoric as MAGA. It could not be more obvious that leftist spaces are absolutely infested with this.
Genocide bad but fuck Ukraine is one thing that both alt left and alt right agree on, coincidentally
There is literally no one I know in the real world that feels that way. Pretty sure the alt left and alt right you mention both speak Russian as a first language.
Can you cite a source on this?
This poster right here is a good example on trying to polarize and create infighting.
.ml is moderated to be ideologically one sided. Pro-capitalism is literally not allowed and will deleted. Making a pro-west or anti-China or Russia comment is like a bat signal for .ml admins and users alike to dogpile on your comment.
It’s their right to moderate their instance how they see fit, but removing content on ideological grounds is going to result in people thinking what’s left is propaganda.
For the most part I like .ml users, I don’t care for the admin team and moderator decisions and that’s why I’m not on that instance. I could care less about the fact my instance is defederated from hexbear users or grad users. They do want to be polarizing and live in a propaganda bubble
The better example is having lived it. Nobody’s better at it than the .ml + Hexbear circlejerk itself. They’re the sole reason I’m on this server now.
Lol what an embarrassing propaganda unit that group is.