• Scirocco@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    Does an invasion/attack by one NATO member trigger an Article 5 response against that country by the remainder of NATO?

    I am sure that this scenario has been imagined before (ahem Greece v. Turkey)

    • Yeller_king@reddthat.com
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      11 days ago

      Unless countries like the UK and France are willing to deploy their militaries to fight US soldiers in Greenland, it doesn’t matter.

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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        11 days ago

        France is in no condition for any war, they could at most crackdown on tiny New Caledonia but have no strenght to do anything to Sahel states. UK military is in complete shambles. So not only they are unwilling to stand to USA but unable to.

      • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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        11 days ago

        Which, indeed, could mean the end of NATO. If it becomes clear that the “alliance” is basically you following the provisions when it serves the US and nobody following them when it doesn’t, what’s the point of all this legalese?

        • Yeller_king@reddthat.com
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          11 days ago

          Yep I think NATO is effectively dead already. We don’t need to wait for the Greenland annexation for that to be the case.

      • Triasha@lemmy.world
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        11 days ago

        The UK and France combined would have a problem if there was a single carrier parked in the North Atlantic. They might have a chance if all the US Carriers and subs were 2000 miles away.

        There is nothing anyone except the US can do about a US annexation of Greenland, short of Nuclear weapons.

    • sik0fewl@piefed.ca
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      11 days ago

      That’s what it says. At least, it does not make an exception for that scenario.

  • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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    11 days ago

    If only the working class across all nations had a defensive alliance. Oh you wanna go to war? General strike.

    Fuck these imaginary lines on a map. We are a divided and conquered species.

  • selokichtli@lemmy.ml
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    11 days ago

    Nah. I wish, but until now Europeans have shown no backbone at all against Trump. When the USA take Greenland, the Danish and Greenlanders are gonna be alone, because that’s what happens between NATO members in conflict. The USA, of course, designed it like that.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        11 days ago

        The global south. NATO is the millitary alliance of the world’s imperialist powers, a destruction of millitary unity among imperialists would severely weaken imperialism.

          • plinky [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            11 days ago

            Each one of these countries was in coalition of the willing, no? and zionist bootlicker extraordinaire as we can observe.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            11 days ago

            Considering they are aligned with the west, who plunder the world’s wealth through export of capital and unequal exchange, that’s not really surprising. Opposition to NATO is pretty basic among anti-imperialists and the global south in general.

            • partofthevoice@lemmy.zip
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              11 days ago

              God damn it, I hate my education system. I thought NATO was the peacekeeper of the world — a valuable residue of WWII. One sided propaganda-based education developed to fuel a belief in American exceptionalism and nationalistic egoism. This education-level propaganda is pretty effective because you don’t actually know what details to question, and so you grow up with some pretty bold assumptions about how the world works (and don’t even realize it). They had me believing Christopher Columbus was some kind of messiah-explorer too.

              How does this happen? My anti-conspiracy brain wants to believe there’s no such thing as an evil man behind the curtain, twisting his mustache and orchestrating these details like ”meh, we need to make sure all the kids believe in this propaganda such that we have an imperialistic society.” So, short of that, how does this happen so effectively?

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                11 days ago

                2 major factors: In any given society, the mode of production is reinforced by the culture, laws, and ideology of said mode of production. Secondly, people license themselves to believe that whatever they think benefits them is good. Capitalism reinforces ideas like individualism, NATO is good, etc, and we go along with it until our material conditions force us into seeing a new reflection of reality, be it at the workplace, or seeing hard evidence online, being the victim of a bombing campaign, etc. It isn’t a man behind the curtain, but capital and the capitalist class.

          • mrdown@lemmy.world
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            11 days ago

            Nato is an imperialist alliance that was created to fight imperalist USSR. Many of the funding countries was still colonizing other countries when it was created. Nato also destroyed Lybia which is the clearest example of it not being just a defensive alliance. Nato also collaborate with Israel who hold the longest current occupation, again has nothing to do with Europe protection.

            The US could leave Nato today, attack a Nato country and Nato will do nothing about it

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              11 days ago

              One major correction, the USSR was anti-imperialist, which is why the imperialists collaborated to oppose them. Their colonies were in danger of liberation due to the soviets aiding anti-imperialist movements.

                • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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                  11 days ago

                  Imperialism : a policy of extending a country’s power and influence through diplomacy or military force.

                  I think it should be self evident why that definition is bullshit

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  11 days ago

                  That’s not what socialists mean by imperialism, by that vibes-based definition defeating Nazi Germany was “imperialism.” Imperialism is instead a form of international exploitation characterized by dominance of monopoly finance capital, export of capital, and super-exploiting the global south for super profits. Spreading socialism is anti-imperialist.

            • UnspecificGravity@piefed.social
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              11 days ago

              That’s a pretty difficult claim to support because it requires you to make some pretty insane assumptions about what would have happened without NATO.

              • Samsuma@lemmy.ml
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                11 days ago

                It’s not difficult (except for Europeans and their settler counterpart) to understand that the world would be better off without NATO, your whiteness. “If it weren’t for NATO then it would’ve been anyone else!” isn’t the convincing claim you think it is. The burden of supporting such chickenshit non-claim is on you.