Hey folks. I just want to check in with the community about a post that was recently removed. My intention is absolutely not to create drama or stir anything up, but I’d like to make sure you all understand my reasoning for removing the post. Also, I’m aware that I’m not as good at articulating these kinds of things as some of our folks, so don’t expect a classic Beehaw philosophy post here.
The post in questions was a link to a twitter thread providing evidence of the IRL identity of “comic” “artist” stonetoss, who is unquestionably a huge piece of shit and a neo-nazi, or at least something so indistinguishable from one that the difference is meaningless.
The post provoked some discussion in the Mod chat and several of us, myself included, were on the fence about it. I understand that there are arguments both for and against naming and calling out people like stonetoss. I find arguments in both directions somewhat convincing, but ultimately the thing that a number of us expressed was that the act of calling someone like this out and potentially exposing them to harassment or real-world consequences for their views might be morally defensible, it didn’t feel like Beehaw was the right place for it. We really want Beehaw to be a place that is constructive and kind, and that this type of doxxing/callout didn’t seem to fit our vision what what we want Beehaw to be. At the same time, we’re all very conscious that it would be easy for this kind of thinking to lead to tone policing and respectability politics, and that is also something we want to be careful to avoid. All this to say that I made what I think was the best decision in the moment for the overall health of !politics as a community, as I saw it.
On a personal note, I find that our Politics community is one of the communities that is most prone to falling into some of the traps that Beehaw was created to avoid. That’s very understandable - politics are something that cause real and immediate harm and stress in a lot of folks’ lives; they’re complicated, contentious, and often make us feel powerless. I’d like to remind folks as we move into the general election season in the US, though, to remember the founding principles of Beehaw when discussing these topics, no matter how stressful they may be: remember the human, assume good faith in others, and above all, be(e) nice.
Thanks,
TheRtRevKaiser
I usually stay away from the political content for the reason you mentioned, but I figured I’d chime in and say I think this was a good decision. Stonetoss is a piece of shit, but there are plenty of other places on the internet for posts like that to happen.
We really want Beehaw to be a place that is constructive and kind
That’s the bottom line, especially with civility deteriorating in some larger Lemmy instances.
It’s also refreshing when a mod explains why they did what they did.
I dont know if its because I originally just had a beehaw account before migrating to check out some other instances so maybe it was always this way and I was shielded by the de-federating, but holy cow are there a bunch of abrasive sniveling dorks in a lot of discussions. All the while bragging about how much smarter they are than those who left reddit, and yet when I check my old niche reddit subs it’s quite a bit more civil.
but holy cow are there a bunch of abrasive sniveling dorks in a lot of discussions.
Indeed; I just encountered this yesterday. I posted something that should’ve been non-controversial, then almost immediately had to go into fly-swatting mode.
when I check my old niche reddit subs it’s quite a bit more civil.
I’ve noticed this as well; there appear to be more people in the larger Lemmy instances who either try to start arguments or immediately downvote you – apparently to get you to delete your new post or comment, or to induce others to join in on the downvoting. They’re just chronic assholes.
Thankfully there’s little to none of this in Beehaw and Discuit.
Yeah there are a lot of reddit-like behaviors on Lemmy. Often from the very people who say they hate reddit. Of course, why they hate reddit may have nothing to do with user behavior.
Which is a shame. We could do it better this time around, but we’re not. Some are, like many on Beehaw, but equally many or even more aren’t.
Of course, why they hate reddit may have nothing to do with user behavior.
…and perhaps everything to do with the person they see in the mirror.
Yeah. I know why beehaw defederated and is inevitably leaving and I understand why they dont want to deal with the usual crap, but I feel like early on when it was one of the bigger instances there was a bit more influence on tone and when they abandoned ship it just lead to the .world and other instances to stew in their own nasty juices.
But yeah I left most of the reddit front page literally more than a decade ago and as reddit exploded a few years ago it got substantially worse. Occasional forays into them are exhausting. Unfortunately the civil people already dugg into the depths of smaller more civil reddit are already in a happy place and the ones who left for greener pastures are clearly those kinds of internet guys. Downvote innocuous comments, go on the attack when discussing things that arent that serious, act smug and superior, and of course just generally be abrasive and nasty.
I personally don’t think I agree with their decision, but I too appreciate the explanation. Beehaw’s mods are a good example that other communities should look to
Personally, I agree with this stance: Even if there are people who I think either deserve or need doxxing, this is not a community suited for planning direct action. It’s public, it is probably not used with good opsec by most people, and we don’t need Beehaw admins to be having to deal with subpoenas for IP addresses when some Nazi gets punched and someone accuses Beehaw of being the reason.
I think you made the right call, and your explanation is wonderfully eloquent. Thanks for all your efforts
I agree with the removal.
Well stated. Once again, thank you for all the hard work you do around here!
People don’t seem to grasp how terrible doxxing can be. It’s easy to distance yourself from the consequences when everything happens online and all is forgotten within a day or two. If you call the police to deal with a problem, you should expect violence. In a similar way, expecting to make people accountable when you sick an angry anonymous mob on them is foolish. Violence is the most likely result.
I like this :)
