- cross-posted to:
- fediverse@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- fediverse@lemmy.ml
Important progress has been made regarding bringing MLS end-to-end encryption to the ActivityPub protocol, with developers already building implementations and providing feedback to a future version of the protocol spec.
You must log in or register to comment.
this is misleading and sensationalistic. if emissary implements e2ee, it’s not “e2ee for the fediverse”, it’s " e2ee for emissary users". did mastodon talk about e2ee? did lemmy?
also the MLS draft (supposedly "better than signal “) proposes for trusted key exchange either " trust the server” (lmao), use a centralized key authority (wow) or have users manually verify their keys out of band (so basically use matrix to assure your chat is encrypted). source: https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-e2ee/architectural-variations.html#validating-end-to-end-encryption
fedi devs need to stop clickbaiting, and fedi users should learn a bit more about their protocol to avoid getting misled this way
Also XMPP with omemo?
I have a bit of an issue with the title, considering federated end to end encrypted messaging has existed since, at the latest, 1991.
What’s the messaging protocol?
Pgp is protocol agnostic, you can use it over email, xmpp, irc… Over pretty much anything that supports plugins.
It’s usually used for email tho.
I thought we already had Matrix
We do.
This is for activitypub DMs.
That’s what I mean.
The headline is a lie.I, too, am often pissed at clickbaity, exaggerated, deliberately ambiguous headlines.
The subtitle makes it clear though: this is about ActivityPub, which has grown into the #1 federation protocol I guess.
If I say tacos coming soon, it doesn’t mean I invented tacos, just that there will be new tacos I guess
i’m suddenly hungry for tacos
Then I charge you with naming you favorite genre at least. Barbacoa?
I heard this is the line for tacos.
Lines long as 2, and they only come three ways. Steak, cilantro, lime, cheese with your choice of sauce… Chicken chipotle mixed Mexican blend cheese, and cilantro lime, rice-cauliflower.
Sides are open as a bar, self serve.
I’ll take one
But we already have tacos.
If you say “Tacos are coming soon”. And we already have tacos. I’d say “What do you mean? Tacos are already here. Do we need more tacos?”Do you just ask if we need more tacos? The answer is always yes… Where is your insatiable hunger?
Does Trump always chicken out though?
Waiting for pizza
Tacos become pizza toppings. Full size tacos, on top of your pizza.
If anyone ever asks “Do we need more tacos?” it becomes your responsibility to slap this individual. Because obviously yes. The answer is ALWAYS yes. Always more tacos. Always.
Matrix is not really integrated into the ActivityPub protocol the same way DMs usually are. I would have to open a separate application to message you on Matrix, I can’t just click on your profile and shoot you a DM (or can I?).
You cannot, two totally different protocols
There you go. So I think adding DMs to ActivityPub would add an extra level of convenience
I mean, there’s nothing technically stopping one app supporting both protocols natively, especially since Lemmy already includes a field for people’s profiles to link their Matrix ID. Though to my knowledge none do it yet.
ActivityPub is only one of a number of federated protocols.
One notably unsuited to instant messaging.
It’s not, the demo video actually shows that being one such use case. There’s nothing stopping anyone from writing a chat service in ActivityPub. But this can also apply to statuses, media, all kinds of other stuff.
And XMPP before it, even for e2ee messaging.
At least this is a slightly different use case.Matrix is decentralized but its not federating in a way like activity pub is doing
ActivityPub isn’t the only way to federate.
Matrix is federating the same way email does. Anyone can spin up their own server. And if they want anyone can spin up their own software. That’s what federation is. Different servers agreeing on how to communicate with each other.What??? I thought being part of Federation meant being part of the WORLD WRESTLING FEDERATION!
OOOOH YEAH, SEE I’M ALWAYS THINKIN THINKIN THINKIN, YEAH. AND WHEN IT’S ALL SAID AND DONE, WE DO THING IN THE RING! DIG IT! THE TOWER OF POWER TOO SWEET TO BE SOUR, FUNKY LIKE A MONKEY! OOOOOOH YEEEAAAHHHH!!!
Pomp and circumstance plays over the house speakers
ELIZABETH!!!
No that’s decentralization, federating is when you can share the info natively outside the platform.
share the info natively outside the platform.
I’m not even sure that makes sense.
Federating is based on protocols not platforms. And what does it mean to share natively if not using the protocol?That’s a distinction that only matters to nerds.
Luckily most of us on here are nerds so it’s all good.
How so? It’s certainly very similar.
The matrix protocol enables federation between different instances running different homeservers between users using different clients.
But all those clients are matrix, not say some discord, some fluxer, some stoat, etc.
All activitypub platforms are activity pub. Also, matrix is a protocol, not a client. There’s tons of clients for matrix (element/element x being the main one).
Yes?
“Matrix” is the protocol.
The equivalent is ActivityPub, not discord, fluxer or stoat.
The Fediverse isn’t federated.
All those clients are ActivityPub, not say some Twitter, some Facebook, some Bluesky, etc.
How is that different?
What do you mean?
And what benefit justifies yet another standard?
In this day and age we need as many open source e2e encrypted alternatives as possible.
Matrix is a protocol, not an “App”. We would all benefit if everyone stopped doing their own thing, and started to push stuff for Matrix.
Matrix does not connect natively to discord as an example, every user of a matrix protocol is still within matrix
So? Does anything connect to discord, legally and natively?
Activitypub doesn’t connect natively to my toaster.
Sounds like you need to upgrade your toaster, noob.
Matrix is a poor choice from a cryptographic perspective. With some serious issues historically (some of which are still unfixed to this day), and an extremely poor response to disclosures.
https://soatok.blog/2026/02/17/cryptographic-issues-in-matrixs-rust-library-vodozemac/
Well now this sounds interesting. And I assume it’s open source?
🤯 That gave me pause. What made you ask (would non-FOSS even be an option for anything ActivityPub)?
It seems so, as the project (Emissary) is using the GNU Affero GPL.
@benpate@mastodon.technology that’s amazingly quick work after just under four weeks. I’m looking forward to the result.
We should always have more alternatives to chose from - good to see so many players.
MLS will eventually be included in all messengers.
It was initially introduced by Wire as an RFC, but they fumbled the federation by making it an enterprise only feature. Because of that, other messengers will do the federating for them. iMessage, Google Messenger, Matrix, and Germ DM (Bluesky) do or partly have it implemented.
Let’s gooooooo
Finally I can discuss my scat fetish with my fellow scat enthusiasts away from the prying eyes of the NSA!
Nyeh-heh heh heeh!
Scat fetish means you like scat singing, right? scatman
Major League Soccer messaging? Let’s goooo
But, what about Session? It’s decentralized, E2EE, uses Lokinet, seems pretty solid, no?
No phone, email, or other info needed to sign up
Why?
What benefit does this have over Signal/Matrix?
The article just says “improvements”.
So, I used messaging here in the broad sense. One possible application for it is instant messaging, which there are ActivityPub implementations out there doing that. But it can also be used for statuses or pretty much anything else that gets federated.
That actually sounds cool, I wonder if they could support Hidden containers, so the same message can be decypted to different messages by different users.
One benefit is that Signal controls all the infrastructure and some people do not like that. Sure, you could also spin up a Matrix home server, but that isn’t an ideal solution for everyone either. Some people want to do messaging via their existing ActivityPub infrastructure and that’s OK.
why? because it would be cool if only intended recipients are able to view sent messages.
That’s not really going to be the case if you’re using a website instead of an audited app like signal/matrix.
that argument doesn’t hold. you’re letting perfect be the enemy of good-and if you truly believe that, then you wouldn’t be recommending Matrix which has web clients, see https://app.element.io/
Any we client including Matrix webclient is incredibly vulnerable to the server just injecting JS and reading your messages.
Like there is no point of E2E encryption in Twitter, Musk can read your messages if you open them on any device he can execute arbitrary code on.
Any we client including Matrix webclient is incredibly vulnerable to the server just injecting JS
That doesn’t preclude fediverse clients from enabling E2EE. A web-client isn’t a requirement.
Like there is no point of E2E encryption in Twitter, Musk can read your messages if you open them on any device he can execute arbitrary code on.
Agreed, nobody should trust twitter, but I would trust most mastodon clients to send encrypted messages, if/when implemented correctly. Does it guarantee that messages will never be read? No, but it does an extra layer that wasn’t there before.
from what i can tell, mls supports much larger group chats (50k users) whereas i assume signal would struggle.
my chat of 10 people i signal seems just as secure, if i am reading right.
good news everybody!
