Let me explain. So imagine this tv show with the plot taking place about like a few decades before the internet was invented. If I see that, I suddenly feel some sort of anxiety as in: “Damn, how did people even get information?”, like I suddenly imagine myself, there, as a child, and not having access to this seemlingly unlimited access to information that I currently have, and not to mention, entertainment content. So like, that feeling of feeling like I’m in the past (as in: I’m imagining myself being in the past), but not have access to the internet just gives me a very bad feeling. Idk how to describe it. As an introvert, I’d hate the pre-internet era.
For context, I’m Gen Z (I mean like birth year around 2000-2005), and I grew up reading a lot of Wikipedia and educational Youtube videos, and variety of news articles, and reading through a lot of internet forums. I hate imagining a world where I didn’t have that. Like Growing up 100 years ago, I would feel even more lonely and isolated, I’d probably have ended my own life out of boredom, if it weren’t for the endless amount of information I am able to obtain.
What is this weird feeling that I’m feeling?
Reverse-Nostalgia?
History-Phobia?
Techno-philia?
(Am I being weird? 🤔)
are you living the present? isn’t now peak weird?
I mean, imo, you got it correct with many of your descriptions:
Fear, Anxiety, Panic, caused by the lack of access to the internet.
Now, I thought I was going to have to coin a term here, but something pretty close already exists:
Nomophobia, fear of not having your your smartphone.
Other proposed terms from other people over the years:
discomgoogolation
abinterretephobia
macriapodiadictuophobia
These have all been proposed as words to mean, basically, fear of not having access to the internet.
Now, you are describing more specifically a fear of an entire, past world without widespread internet access, which is a bit different… as it isn’t just you personally not having your internet device, but the total lack of them, the lack of societal norms built around them, etc.
I would point out that there are still roughly 3 billion of people on Earth, right now, who live without consistent and reliable access to the internet, who cannot afford a smart phone or any kind of internet device.
But yeah, as others have said… before the internet was widespread… we used libraries, we read books and articles and physical newspapers… sometimes, you would have to hunt down a particular rare book, or ask a library to get it loaned from another library, you could wait weeks or months.
I remember an actual physical voicemail machine, an actual physical caller ID device, I remember having to commit my friend’s and family’s 10 digit phone numbers to memory, or carry a small personal contact list with me.
I remember when getting a cordless phone, that would let you go sit down on the couch instead of having to stand or sit within 3 feet of the wall mounted phone… was a completely mind blowing innovation.
And I was born in the tail end of the 80s, before the Berlin Wall fell.
I remember being forced into typing lessons, on an actual keyboard, as one of the very few things my dad forced me into that was actually a good call, and now that the vast majority of younger folks use touchscreens… an increasing number of them have no idea how to actually type, which blows my mind because for the vast majority of my life, not knowing how to type was an extremely stereotypical Boomer attribute.
And now its getting far worse, with an absolute epidemic of students of all manner of subjects who just do not know anything, because they are reliant on some kind of AI to answer all their questions and generate all their answers.
It has been argued before that a human with a smartphone, which they have at all times, is functionally a kind of ‘soft’ cyborg, as the smartphone is a part of so much of their thinking, their culture, their way of life.
So, I suppose its understandable that a ‘soft’ cyborg is terrified by the idea of having part of their brain ripped out, and cannot comprehend how a society could function with everyone not having their portable thinking and communication augmentation.
I look at TV shows like OP is talking about and think it might be kind of nice to live in an era where things are slower. If a library book might take weeks and you need to go into town to get a comic book, or there’s nothing to do until dinner except maybe some activity with the people in your close vicinity, it feels like a much more intimate way to experience the world. But I do remember in my early teens when the first wave of Personal Data Assistants came out, and I was wowed by the technology. I can edit a computer document right here in the palm of my hand. Keep my contacts with me, a calendar, a calculator, simple drawing programs. It felt like that device could do everything, years before smartphone was a word. Now I carry two phones around on two different carriers because I too fear a world without service. I sometimes want to go back to the slower world, so I do at times relish long waits at the DMV with nothing to do, or a power outage on a stormy night. But I hate feeling like I’m wasting my time. Even when there’s nothing to do, I’m always trying to do something, it’s just that being constrained forces me to pick different things. So, I’m not sure if it would help or hurt OP to hear that if they grew up before any of this existed, there’s every possibility they would have felt more fulfilled. Because time was something you could still get a handle on and not feel like it’s always slipping away. At least, not so much. In that sense, ignorance can really be bliss.
I disagree that ignorance can be bliss in this case.
Look up the Carrington Event.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing that would prevent that from happening again at literally any time.
And if the Carrington Event happened now, it would most likely knock out the vast majority of the world’s power systems and telecommunication systems… possibly for a very long time, depending on how much chaos ensued.
Even without a one in a million even like that… the world is literally on fire. Climate change is out of control, and it is consistently worse that consensus projections from 5 or 10 years ago.
Disasters will intensify, infrastructure will be knocked out, the food supply system will buckle, governments will become more authoritarian, and be more likely to go to war with each other.
It will be a very rude wakeup call for the totally smart device dependent people when their region goes offline… they will have as much of a mental breakdown from not having access to tech and the web as they will from ‘how will i eat, where will i live?’
I guess there’s two kinds of ignorance at play here.
The kind I was referring to is the ignorance of high standards. If you don’t know that you can live in a state of constant dopamine drip supplied by your cellular device, because cellular devices haven’t been invented yet, you wouldn’t miss those dopamine hits that you don’t even know will exist. I think OP would have been just fine if they were born into an earlier generation. Because they would have the bliss of not knowing what future they’re missing out on.
But to your point, the constantly supplied bliss from our internet bubbles does make us more ignorant to the things outside our bubble. And these days, the things we focus on are often dictated by the corporations who make the addictive apps. So, those corporations will profit by directing away from knowledge about how those same corporations are destroying so many parts of our world. In this case, I would argue that the ignorance is still bliss. It’s just a malignant harmful bliss that distracts from the real things we should be concerned about. And in a way, if it could snap us out the destructive path we’re on, I could see how another Carrington event might actually act as a wake-up call regarding our blatant hubris in thinking that society is ever safe from collapse.
As you mentioned, there are those who live in parts of the world where they have no access to technology, still living in that blissful ignorance of pre-computerized times. But that is a social bliss. They will still be hurt by the geological effects that the industrial age has wrought. And it won’t be pretty.
So, I think I would agree with your assertion, plus an addendum. Ignorance isn’t bliss. But it was.
When you’re living in it, you don’t know what the future will have. I like my information and tech, but growing up as a kid before all that was pretty sweet. You weren’t always after knowing or researching or finding out everything. You lived more in the moment.
There was also a freedom that will never return for anyone. Imagine going places and doing things that at best will only be a story people could tell. No pictures or videos that keep or prove anything forever digitally around. It’s something you subconsciously think about now all the time. It didn’t used to exist. Also the freedom of being a kid and wanting to go hang out wondering around with friends all day completely untethered or tracked. Just a “be home before the streetlights come on” and beyond that your parents have no idea where you are and can’t call you. Getting lost was an adventure.
It’s because back then there was a thing called boredom which led to creativity and generally happier lives. Now, it’s nearly impossible to be bored, and people are much less apt to learn a new thing or go on an adventure because theyre obsessed with their phones. Institute a no phone or no internet rule on weekends, I do this and it’s great!
I think you are deeply mistaken in believing that people can be on their phones and not be bored at the same time.
I grew up in New Zealand in the 50s-60s. We got most info on current events from the radio. Later on there was TV, but it was mainly radio. Our radio had long-wave and if atmospheric conditions were right you could pick up foreign broadcasts.
Other knowledge came from school, obviously, and from libraries. I absolutely haunted my local library, and read voraciously. I still have a fund of info in my head from back then that comes in handy in pub quizzes. When I wasn’t reading I was out with my friends on our bicycles. We rode for miles at a time - I don’t remember ever telling an adult where we were going.
(About libraries - I don’t know if you’re aware, but the tycoon Andrew Carnegie funded libraries around the world, including the one in the city near my home town.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_library
Having said all that and making it sound idyllic, it wasn’t. Society back then was repressive in major ways and people’s viewpoints were generally narrow. History books weren’t always telling the truth. It wasn’t terrible compared with say apartheid South Africa, but not great. There was a counter-culture bubbling away - beatniks and then hippies - so it was possible to get an alternative view, just about.
I love the technology that gives me access to not just information, but the lived experience of people round the world. I love reading posts here about mad trivial stuff like what you all are having for breakfast. I love taking a Street View tour of places I’ll likely never visit. I’m reading a novel set in Iceland at the moment, and can “drive” along the route a character is taking. I can video chat with my sister, who lives 10,000 miles away. It’s a miracle!
You would naturally have more friends because you’re not on the internet all the time. You would probably have a third place. Go to parks and what not. I’m an introvert as well and I grew up in the 90s, you’d be fine. Lol life finds a way. You would be surprised what you would be willing to do when there is nothing else.
90s kid introvert here.
I would hop on my bike of a Saturday morning, explore the town for an hour, hit the library, come home a few hours later with as many books as I could fit in my backpack.
I’d stay up late learning to code from paperback manuals, save my games to floppies and swap them with friends at school or make my brothers play them.
I ran a year-long pen-and-paper fantasy wargame with my friends from the Scouts, I’d spend an hour every week tabulating the results of everyone’s orders and updating the map.
I’m you from the previous generation. I lived too far away from the library to reach it on bike, but parents worked near it so they’d bring me books on their way home and returned by read ones at the same time. For me those games were written in BASIC for Commodore 64 along with rampant game piracy. Our made up pen-and-paper games were also made up but were mostly based on Cold War and Middle East scenarios.
yisss I was also jamming on the C64, a hand-me-down from a cousin
Eventually I had read all the books I was interested in at the local library, and the second nearest library, and the downtown library, and I was riding eight miles each way to get to the far side of town. As long as I was back by dinnertime!
Welp I had a brief time in elementary school to middle school like right before the smartphone era really began (think like 2012-2016), there was nearly zero phones in school at that time, I can assure you I still had near zero friends and everyone that I do talk to, I only considered them to be an “acquaintance”. Everyone talked to each other, I was the loser making origami stuff and being a loser in the corner by myself with barely anyone to talk to. So yea I kinda hated my life during that time period. Perhaps seeing tv shows portray pre-internet era triggered these subconcious memories and cause those fears to resurge?
Not having anyone to talk to for a few years in grade school doesn’t mean you wouldn’t have managed in a world without the internet. Its perhaps unfortunate that smartphones enabled you to be insular and never develop more socially (in regards to your original question)
Those of us in our 40-50s that helped build the thing you are having trouble imagining life without are more and more wishing they didn’t do it. We know the world before and after and yearn for the world we helped destroy. The WWW had so much potential, but like all good things it was shit on by corpo scum.
Yep, my opinion is pretty much dead set that things really were better back then.
Yeah . We might be the first generation that’s objectively correct when we say things used to be better.
look at history book “Oh no”
flips though more pages 😳
(Wars, Oppression, Poverty, Polio…)
Having lived that childhood, I can give you some insight.
“Damn, how did people even get information?”
Believe it or not, most people simply didn’t. For the average low engagement person they would get news/information from the 3 or 4 TV channels available on Over-The-Air TV. Those that wanted to be informed about current events would actually plan to be in front of a TV somewhere to catch the 30 minutes of evening news (well 30 minutes national and usually 30 min local). There was some news on the radio, and possibly the largest news source was newspapers (usually only your locally published on) and monthly magazines. For most people that was it! For some they didn’t read the newspaper and didn’t watch/listen to the news.
However, if you wanted more news/knowledge/info, there was more to be had, but you had to actively go places and seek it out.
like I suddenly imagine myself, there, as a child, and not having access to this seemlingly unlimited access to information that I currently have
Libraries were the “unlimited access to information”, and there was a lot of it. Unless it was a really small branch library, every single public library building you walked into had more books/magazines/newspapers than you could read in your entire lifetime, and there were literally hundreds of libraries available to you across the USA. Private libraries, such as colleges, would have even more. It felt like unlimited access to information at the time.
and not to mention, entertainment content.
Honestly, we were much more creative. When you’d already read the couple of new magazines you got that month, nothing on the 3 or 4 channels of TV interested you, and the 4 or 5 radio stations were playing songs on heavy rotation you already knew, you went looking to create your own entertainment. This could be playing sports, writing, art, playing games you made up with friends, trying new bicycle/skateboard tricks, etc. At least a third of people would be people that created things, making songs, building models, woodworking, fixing/upgrading cars, growing (gardening/livestock), cooking, etc.
So like, that feeling of feeling like I’m in the past (as in: I’m imagining myself being in the past), but not have access to the internet just gives me a very bad feeling.
It was actually the opposite. If you spent the time to search out information, which took skills like knowing where to look in a library, you’d be thought of as smart. Example: “How the heck did you know off the top of your head that that capital of Hungary was Budapest?!”. For someone in the USA, to know they, they would have had to sought out a world map/encyclopedia/almanac, know that Hungary was a country, know that is in Europe, and know how to find the capital. Same with general knowledge on any topic such as history of the Roman Empire or US Civil War. If you had an interest, you could find the information, but it took work. People knew that, so if you could show you had the knowledge it was appreciated and came with a certain amount of respected.
You would have been just fine.
Gf and I were in college in 90 or 91 and another couple was simply amazed by us.
“You guys are so crazy! Whenever you want to learn about something you just go to the library and grab a bunch of books!”
Hmm interesting. But it means I don’t have a magical “damn it I forgot, let me google it” option. If I lived in that time, I’d have to write every piece of knowledge I want to remember down on a notebook, so I don’t forget and have to go borrow that same book again.
Or keep a whole bookshelf of knowledge, in which case, that would be taking a lot more space than a wikipedia.zim file + .epubs
The “damn it I forgot, let me google it” option, back then, was looking it up in the set of encyclopedias your family probably had. Or if you didn’t have a set, or needed more elaborate information, you went to the library.
I remember it was a big deal as a kid when we got the encyclopedia Britannica on CD-Rom. So I could just type in what I was looking for instead of having to try to find it manually.
It’s a bit strange to think about, but our brains seem to have adapted to information accessibility today by more readily remembering how to find the information instead of the information itself. (See Betsy Sparrow et al)
If you lived back then, chances are you’d just straight up remember more things without needing to go look them up again. But, you might also just remember what book you found it in.
I have wondered if this is part of the reason why ancient orators were apparently capable of reciting hours of dialog from memory. They simply had to. Libraries and books weren’t generally accessible. They had to rely on memory, and thus became very trained on it.
If you lived back then, chances are you’d just straight up remember more things without needing to go look them up again. But, you might also just remember what book you found it in.
Its more the second than the first, knowing where to get info:
- Want to know the industrial products of Turkey? Almanac.
- Who said “Give me a lever long enough and I can move the world” Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations book.
- Synonyms for the word “apology”, thesaurus book. Basic history of the Navajo people, Encyclopedia.
- Definition (or spelling!) of “analgesic” - Merriam Webster Dictionary.
- What happened in town on March 3rd 1967 - Microfilm/microfiche at the library
- What model of refrigerator is the most reliable? - Consumer Reports magazine backissues at the library
I have wondered if this is part of the reason why ancient orators were apparently capable of reciting hours of dialog from memory.
I’d be curious for this answer too. However I think this is more of the “benefits of a classical education” which meant that teaching materials were limited, and you may find your entire class for the year is memorizing famous speeches from men that society deemed worthy.
You wouldn’t have that issue since you would have developed a better memory without incessant infantilizing technology. Look at how many people still remember their original phone number 40 years later. Look up the study of cab driver gray matter decrease after the GPS era. We are all stupider now thanks to tech, no doubt.
We are all stupider now thanks to tech, no doubt.
I respectfully disagree.
I mean, if you mean like for some of my peers that spend their time on shit like “tik tok” all day, that’s obviously making them more stupid. But for the nerds that actually want to know more about the world, Not really.
For example, the Encyclopedia. That’s a very narrow source of information, and subject to the author/publisher’s censorship possibly by government pressure. There is no direct publishing like there is today.
In my birth country, PRC, the Tianamen Square Massacre wouldn’t ever made it into any encyclopedias, but with the internet, at least now there’s better chance of someone using a VPN and accessing the truth. Might not change anything politically, but at least the truth is out there for anyone willing to see it.
The internet-connected world make it harder to censor thing. There are a lot of videos and images of protests during the covid lockdowns that would’ve have a hard time mading it out to the international community without the internet.
Edit: And also the fact that now everyone has a camera in their pockets, acts of police brutality are more easily documented with the exact events replayed without the usual human eyewitness unreliability (misremembering the events). The murderer of George Floyd would’ve never been convicted without that phone video. I know the fact is there are still a lot of police brutality incidents that goes without justice served, but this is progress noneless.
Technology isn’t inherently evil, its about how we use it, its about what we do to stop those in power from wielding the technology, and we have to take it back in our own hands and wield technology against them.
I agree with most of the points you are making, but I think the main point the person you are replying to… their point was that … younger generations simply are not able to remember things they have read, either online, or in a book.
It used to be the case that you could not just pull up literally any information, out of your pocket, on demand.
That knowledge had to exist in your brain.
Historically, it gets even worse.
Many cultures had dedicated members of their society who had memorized an ancient tale that would take one hundred pages to write out on paper.
Of course, they did not remember them 100% accurately each time… but humans do seem to be losing a capability for mass information storage in our own brains as technology enables us to… not need to develop that capability.
The GPS navigation example is maybe easier to grasp: Before everyone had a GPS homing beacon and navigation telling them where to go, how to navigate through a city or country…
People knew how to read road signs. People knew how to read maps. People knew how to avoid high traffic areas and take shortcuts… all on their own.
Now, if you take GPS away from literally those same people, 20 or 30 years later, they would end up lost even in places they’ve lived in for decades.
Having to really actively search for the information and then writing it down both help you remember it.
keep a whole bookshelf of knowledge
When I was a kid, in the 70’s and 80’s, the shortcut for that was the set of encyclopedias you (hopefully) had on your bookshelf. Wikipedia gets its name from wiki + encyclopedia. And the Encyclopedia Britannica, or whichever one you had, was the go-to when you couldn’t make it to the library.
Historically, people did exactly that and collected info in commonplace books.
Growing up back then I owned a lot of books (and borrow vastly more for friends and libraries). I had a couple of bookshelves in my room, but my family home had at least a dozen full sized bookshelfs. So although I didn’t have access to the infinite info of the modern Internet, I read a lot of much more specific non-fiction books. There’s a lot to be said about having a deeper and cohesive understanding of a subject, compared to reading a bunch of wiki articles and watching a few hours of YouTube on a topic (although I enjoy that too!)
Hmm interesting. But it means I don’t have a magical “damn it I forgot, let me google it” option.
So true! That is the benefit to today. But keep in mind, no one else would have it either.
If I lived in that time, I’d have to write every piece of knowledge I want to remember down on a notebook, so I don’t forget and have to go borrow that same book again.
Nah, it didn’t really work like that. You had a handful of reference books at home for general knowledge. So when you got home you could crack open your encyclopedia or almanac to answer most basic questions. Like this one:
Here’s the partial table of contents from a much later edition:
For topics/questions that exceeded this, it would be a trip to the library and potentially a conversation with a reference librarian on where to find the detailed info. If you had to order a book from another library it could take days or weeks to get your answer. This required effort is why knowledge was more prized. If you had the knowledge it was a reflection of your effort to get it. Or back in the 80s, those that were self conscious would call you a “nerd” for knowing more than they did as a defense.
Or keep a whole bookshelf of knowledge, in which case, that would be taking a lot more space than a wikipedia.zim file + .epubs
Yes, this is what many did. Yes having much more knowledge at your fingertips is much better.
You didn’t have much info, but neither did other people! People told the weirdest stories and “facts”.
We read Ripley’s Believe It or Not and the Guinness Book of World Records instead of Wikipedia. Urban legends were rampant. Everyone lived in constant fear of “the gum disease gingivitis”.
We also had encyclopedias, which were mostly accurate at one point in time but always a decade of more out of date when used as a reference.
As a kid my mom kept a list of questions and we looked them up in the encyclopedias at the library every weekend, and a lot of people with more money had encyclopedia sets at home. So people could get information but it took a little effort and wasn’t instant
People had encyclopedias and dictionaries in their homes. They read newspapers every day [and since there was a lot of coemption between papers they made sure of their facts.]
imho people today are more likely to fall for nonsense because they look for confirmation instead of accuracy.
The whole “le wrong generation” thing is kind of a fallacy because being alive now allows you to enjoy all the pop culture that has gone before and today’s pop culture too. We’re in a win-win situation being alive now.
idk why you have that feeling, but maybe it helps to remember all this info was available too, but it took longer to get it. for example, you got the news only via radio, tv and newspaper and had to keep track of time to watch it or go buy a newspaper with news from yesterday. you could get media from the library or shops, like record stores etc… you could buy maps in certain places and there were usually public maps in towns. to message someone you had multiple options, for example telegraph them. many homes had compact encyclopedia describing most known things in short. if your home didn’t have this, you could ask neighbours or check with schools or libraries.
maybe that feeling is projected impatience. maybe it’s frustration with how slow and complicated things were.
I think I just remembered one of my fears that I always have: The idea of censorship
With the internet, I can find foreign journalist’s publications to cross-check facts.
Before the internet, I don’t think foreign press critical of your country’s government, especially if it’s an authoritarian country, would’ve been permitted.
Sure there are website censorships too in the modern era. But I think getting a VPN is far easier than smuggling foreign books and newspapers, and word-of-mouth news is just a long telephone game.
back then you were also able to obtain foreign news via radio or some foreign newspapers. on airports and big train stations you could usually get foreign newspapers and magazines. also, it was expected of reporters to be as objective as possible most of the time. the shit fox and others pull nowadays was absolutely faux pas until like the 70s and was less bad until like mid 90s.
It was much the opposite! Yeah, we only had 3 or 4 news sources on TV, but they mostly said the same things. Being caught bullshitting, or having even a little bias, was unthinkable as trust was the only selling point as to what station you watched.
As to criticizing the government, catching politicians bullshitting was the national sport for journalists.
Bloom County was a great comic that covered American culture and politics from 1980-1989. You won’t get many of the references, but it’s a perfect snapshot of the 80s.
Before the internet, I don’t think foreign press critical of your country’s government, especially if it’s an authoritarian country, would’ve been permitted.
You’d find this on Shortwave radio. Without going into the science of it, with a Shortwave radio, you could hear news reports from the other side of the planet. I could easily regularly turn in the BBC when I was on the other side of the Atlantic.
But I think getting a VPN is far easier than smuggling foreign books and newspapers, and word-of-mouth news is just a long telephone game.
The danger on this front is today’s surveillance society. If you had managed to smuggle in books or newspapers into your home, the only way they would have been found is if law enforcement would have entered your home and searched it enough. Realistically that would be a lot of effort to try to do that on a society. Its possible, certainly, but very difficult. Today, even with your VPN, a zero-day exploit or DNS hijack could let them watch in real-time everything you’re doing without even tipping you off.
I’m around five to ten years older than you and get the same feeling sometimes. Not so much from TV shows or movies, but also from reading or watching real-life stories from that time. Like, when reading documents written pre-Internet that reference then-current events, how and how much did they know about those events? All just TV and newspapers? Nowadays I can easily find out what happened back then, but that was obviously not so much so at the time.
I do not remember a time without the Internet at all, but I do remember very well a time before mobile Internet, and I remember that around the time you were born, most people watched TV almost every day. I hardly ever watch TV nowadays, there is so much more entertainment online (e.g. YouTube).
As for looking up information, in the mid-to-late 2000s it was really mostly Wikipedia that built up the Internet as a useful resource for doing that. Obviously nowadays nearly all information that can be found there can be found on numerous other websites too; the Internet has now been built up, so Wikipedia is arguably a much less important website now than back then…
What is this weird feeling that I’m feeling?
Appreciation, maybe? There were books before the internet, but I think it’s no contest that the internet is the best resource for information that has ever existed. Pre-internet people didn’t have FOMO because they didn’t know what was coming.
FWIW I don’t think it’s weird at all to feel that way. I grew up when the internet became accessible to everyone, and I would not want to go back to before then despite the new problems it poses.
As a BBS era kid, I know you’re not trying to simulate the whole thing right now in the comments section. I’d say: you would have done fine, in any era. People talk, they share methods, and you would’ve picked up whatever you needed.
I think it’s just a common sort of nightmare, worrying about being unprepared, dealing with the consequences of lack of preparation.
I recommend the first few minutes of Jason Scott’s The BBS Documentary, for an overview of how people communicated in the pre-internet days. Especially if you imagine yourself a telegraph operator chatting with neighboring stations in the 19th century or something.
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