It’s pretty funny to see someone travel to a lemmy.ml thread and complain about lemmy.ml users being there.

huh, guess my habit for picking smaller indie providers is paying off.

Clean McStainKill

My approach if adblocking isn’t an option is switching tab/window and muting the tab (on a computer, that’s just two click at the top of the screen) or on a phone, muting and putting the phone out of view.

And eventually, maybe they’ll even tell their old people friends about it. I can definitely see one of my mom’s friends complaining about how slow their computer is, and my mom saying “well my son put this Linux stuff on our computer, and it sped everything right up” and then boom you got old people getting curious about it too.

That’s a good point. If we’ve reached a point where the basic experience Just Works while solving real Windows issues (incl updates and performance), then it’s going to get word-of-mouth praise instead of complaints. And if regular people start hearing about Linux stuff improving their computer, it’s going to mean far more than my ideological rants about owning your own tools and community created software.

I’ve tried to make a couple of anonymous throwaways (for privacy reasons - I’ve never been banned) and they vanish pretty quickly, seemingly as soon as I share a link. Yes, even when not using a VPN.

I was already no longer posting on reddit through alternative front-ends since around 2018, because I disliked privacy issues with it. I was just lurking via alternate frontends (the precursors to Redlib, there were more before the API fiasco). I was already into the FOSS community and so I forget exactly how I came across Raddle and Lemmy (maybe through /r/piracy or /r/datahoarder, but could have been many other places), and Lemmy was far far far slower then, but when I landed on Lemmy I really wanted it to become a viable alternative to reddit.

I have heard the same sentiment about privacy, and from what I’ve seen in privacy tool communities (e.g. meshnets, where the densest networks I saw in the world were Germany and Catalonia, or Tor network where it’s common to find German nodes) this matches up.

That’s not true; there are plenty of logistics roles needed!

In seriousness; bloodless (or relatively bloodless) revolutions exist, but almost every time the ruling class is threatened, they choose the bloody route to cling onto power by any means necessary. I’ve seen my friends beaten by police just for protesting against the Zionist Regime, and that’s not even close to a revolution. So for all intents and purposes, we must accept that the necessary changes to society to fix all this, will end up violent.

I think Lemmy in general is very against AI

I agree, although for a counter-case, db0 has involvement in community-driven image generation (Horde, some communities they host and banners they use).

My view isn’t as blanket as pro- or anti- “AI” (and I add quotes because I see that as a science-fiction term adapted into a marketing fantasy).

These technologies are powerful and there are legitimate, productive, pro-social uses of them (an obvious example is assisting in medical diagnosis). They are not inherently incompatible with social values, environmental progress, and the other problems associated with it - these technologies are tools powered by electricity and materials. But the way they are currently implemented, the economic concerns around marketing them, and the lack of broad education around them, are very very dangerous.

• The way regular people misunderstand and misuse the technology has already resulted in direct deaths, all kinds of mismanagement and mass sacking of workers. Mistrusting technology is no new issue, see ELIZA in the '60s for example, but this is so much more accessible, more misrepresented due to marketing campaigns and social media, and more powerful. Furthermore, a huge proportion of people don’t have the media literacy to instinctively doubt its output - and this was already a big enough issue with news media.

• Processing currently is largely done using non-renewable energy sources in large centralized data centers (consuming water, creating noise pollution, etc.) which has serious global and local environment issues.

• Most of our exposure to this technology as regular citizens is wasteful or actively harmful, such as propaganda/forgery, vapid industrialization of artistic aesthetics, unsolicited sexualization, scams and fraud attacks, automated bots, advertising and other ‘slop’, along with misguided attempts to eliminate workers from jobs which cannot be adequately delegated to these tools.

They fully support the Russian invasion

wut? Even lemmygrad.ml doesn’t - their support of the Russian Federation’s invasion has always been critical, not full. Just like their support for Hamas is critical - it’s extremely obvious that neither the capitalist-run RF nor the Islamist Hamas are groups they agree with at all.

(I am not a campist, I’m simply explaining the campist concept of “critical support”)

Just ban everything and everyone you don’t agree with.

They were specific about what they didn’t agree with: Authoritarianism.

And if they don’t want to tolerate guests from an instance that allows Zionism, then good. Any feddit.org members who think their admins’ permissiveness is tolerable are complicit in the promotion of Zionism, even if they aren’t intentionally complicit. Yes, hanging around with pro-genocide people should earn punishment, such as ostracization until they stop hanging around pro-genocide people. It’s a social media account on the Fediverse, switching isn’t difficult.

We did the same thing to Wolfballs, until their admin closed the instance because it was filled with literal neo-Nazis calling the admin a ‘race-traitor’. Tolerating every belief is utopian, pointless and self-destructive.

If you have a bit of time, please collect evidence of when that targeting and harassment happens. I’ve already seen a few accounts using low-quality /c/MoG posts to try and demonize .ml, lemmygrad and hexbear so it’s useful to have a post or posts to point to showing that it’s a harassment circlejerk, not the credible spectators they pretend to be.

First things first, I do not defend nutomic’s ignorant transphobia. It’s unfortunate to see how legitimate complaints about capitalist exploitation of trans issues (rainbow capitalism) can be wrongfully misdirected into reactionary anti-trans victim-blaming. Their personal writings on trans issues are harmful.

And I don’t think Lemmy really is defined by the politics of those instances anymore. Their politics are largely optional, especially now that many other instances have grown. These days, I see more red-scare posters than tankies, who regularly inflame off-topic instance drama whenever they see a username from one of the instances.

The cm0002 compilation linked is a list of trolling strawman claims, many are either completely made up or shamelessly misframed. I’ll pick a few representative ones to talk about, obviously there’s too many to give proper attention to in one reply:

• The first one: [Dessalines:] “Slava Ukraini” is considered a “Fascist slogan”: Yes, this is a true claim from cm0002 and a fair position from Desallines to hold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava_Ukraini#Second_World_War . Openly-fascist groups like Azov Battalion maintain a strong presence in Ukrainian nationalism, so the preservation of this slogan isn’t a historical oddity.

• ^^ We also see cm0002 list another post of a user being banned for saying “Slava Ukraini”, which cm0002 knows is considered by lemmy.ml staff as being a fascist slogan, but instead knowingly misframes the ban as “Showing support for Ukraine on .ml is worthy of a site ban”, which simply isn’t the case. fwiw, I do believe the two devs, in the busyness, do a terrible job of explaining their perspectives in ban messages, using quick messages like “orientalism” or “Rule 1” which will just puzzle someone who doesn’t understand how what they said was offensive.

• [Dessalines:] “The BBC is not a credible news source”: I don’t unconditionally agree with that as a general statement, but in the context of some political topics, this is a fair position. They’re a state-sponsored channel, and like all countries, the British state has biases too. Here is one case of MI5 state intervention into the BBC ongoing for over 50 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/“Christmas_tree”_files .

• “[Davel:] Response to a valid report of “NK is actually good” as propaganda/misinfo”: The report is right there to read, it’s not claiming “misinfo”. Spreading political beliefs is not against the rules of that community or the instance, why should it be? The point of thinking about politics is to improve the world. cm0002 just assumes saying some basic positive things about countries they don’t like should be banned. That is a chauvinistic belief, and them posting about it this way is propaganda in itself. Yet we can assume someone reporting their post for propaganda would get a similarly dismissive reaction.

• [Cowbee:] "Propaganda is good actually”: - and then you click on the link and now it’s changed to the lesser strawman - “Propaganda can be good!”… cm0002 is, again, making false statements to fabricate an extreme position out of some pretty boring factual claims, and then points to them and says “Look at all this extremism!”. Just look at the comments on that post, even they’re saying Cowbee is right, and that’s a politically-motivated circlejerk in a circlejerk community. cm0002 is inventing and exaggerating to create drama, and in my experience, drama spreaders are much more effective at driving people away than unpopular communities.

As a side note, and I want to point out that that I’m commenting about media propaganda practices and not taking a side (I support the working class in both Ukraine and Russia, I would pop champagne if Putin and their friends were shot tonight, and the same goes for Russian mercenaries, the Azov fascists and the US vultures prolonging their proxy war at the expense of Ukrainian people), but it’s always puzzled me that the phrase “illegal invasion” caught on. What the hell does a “legal invasion” look like? Laws are written by the victor, there is nothing inherently wrong with breaking law. 🏴‍☠️💿

Same applies to all social networks and MS Windows, right?

The only social networks I willingly use are Fediverse instances, none I’m registered on are hosted in the US.

No device in my house runs Windows. Linux is an upgrade, I recommend it.

Things that rich people own manufacturing of?

As a socialist, I believe the working class must seize the means of production, and am doing my part in building that future for us all.

What about cars? They’re pretty much govt spyware now too.

Yes, I despise the ‘smart’ features shoved into cars, televisions, etc… I am also active in /c/fuckcars, I am critical of their overuse and rarely use one.

Now, none of this is necessary for us to recognize that giving the US control of important infrastructure is dangerous. But you did ask. And many governments are also moving away from US infrastructure, although more slowly.

As for Starlink, its common use is the result of laziness and neglect. Satellite internet is clearly not the cheapest, fastest or most efficient for most of its customers to get modern internet infrastructure. Governments should be reducing their citizens’ need for Starlink as a serious priority, by building internet infrastructure.

I’ll add to this that a common rationale for centrism is that significantly changing course is dangerous. However, this is obviously relative, with an implication that the status quo is not as dangerous. Lots of unnecessary everyday death and suffering is normalized, often ignored by a centrist, but any death and suffering caused in the process of fixing these problems is counted!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_murder

I don’t believe the words ‘good’ or ‘bad’ are useful to describe people. We can, and should, aim to be more specific.

As Cowbee pointed out already, ‘centrism’ is a vague concept, especially since this site isn’t just people from the USA. Does it mean people who are apathetic about left-right politics? People who intentionally position themselves in the middle? People resistant to changing this terrible tragedy?

Even in my country, and my country is progressive compared to the USA, both the center-right and center-left parties (I’m using Wikipedia’s evaluation here because I object to the left-right political scale) are funneling wealth up to the rich, destroying our environment, compounding housing issues, supporting an ongoing genocide and scapegoating immigrants. Seeing either of these parties as acceptable is a serious issue, and is complicity in the crises these issues create.

That doesn’t mean I absolutely judge these people as ‘bad’, perhaps ignorant or misled but not bad, there are many sincere and caring ways through life that lead people to these harmful positions, but it’s a seriously harmful political position which we, as a society, are obligated to shift. And yes, apathy is a political position too, there is no ‘apolitical’: the status quo is just the ideology of the ruling class.

deleted by creator

[This user claims to have blocked the instance I registered on, so I assume they won’t read this]

Lemmy is what it is because of the beliefs and values of instances like lemmy.ml. There have been many other attempts at creating reddit alternatives, decades of them, from voat to raddle. The lead developers have clear values which guided Lemmy into being a better platform than reddit and the other reddit-like forums - free-and-open source, anti-commercial, decentralized, and counter to the pro-US media hegemony. These are not incidental, values aren’t a syncretic pick-and-choose buffet! They are a result of the socialist ideologies of the admins of each of those instances, and how they have been applied to material reality.

And keep in mind that these instances aren’t some outsider aberration, they were the three largest Lemmy instances until 2023, they remain large and popular, and host popular active communities frequented by users of many other instances.

And while Zedestrian perceives lemmy.ml, Lemmygrad and Hexbear as problematic (and I have my criticisms of each of them), from my perspective, many of the big liberalist instances are far more problematic, tolerating right-wing bigots, allowing obvious pro-US think-tank propaganda accounts, and banning users from advocating for action (including, where necessary, violence) against the ruling class destroying us and our planet. That’s a big reason why many left, for were banned from, reddit. Should lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works therefore be removed, for being problematically close to the harmful behaviors of reddit.com that many of us are trying to escape? That’s a serious reputational liability too, it can drive users away if they can’t find the places they want to join.

A friend of mine has their large corporate company telling everyone they have to show up to one of their offices on at least two days each week. Now a few people just walk there at 2355, clock out at 0005, and spend the rest of the week at home.

Silly conditions -> silly behaviors