Note: the MacOS part is false
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Plummer
David William Plummer (born August 9, 1968) is a Canadian-American programmer and entrepreneur. He created the Task Manager for Windows, the Space Cadet Pinball ports to Windows NT, Zip file support for Windows, HyperCache[2] for the Amiga and many other software products.
2025: The guy that wrote Windows’ Task Manager at Microsoft is creating burner accounts to get the OS installed.
I’ve been doing that whenever I had to do a Windows installation in recent years. But I don’t plan to ever install Windows again.
Would you really believe any of that?
He has been making Youtube videos for years, if he was a fraud, which you imply, someone would have found evidence of it
He was actually convicted of fraud. Remember “Your computer has a virus. Install my (shady) app to fix it” banners in 2000s? That was also him.
I hadn’t heard anything about this - quite interesting in context of the discussion, and also in that it only has a grain of truth.
His company was sued for violations of the Consumer Protection Act (for making shitty misleading ‘you may have a virus! Click here for free scan’ popups and shady apps like ‘RegistryCleaner’, as you allude), which they settled for $150k plus $40k in court fees.
He was never charged with fraud nor convicted - that is something much more serious.
Ah so the guy is a POS, so why should I listen to him.
You shouldn’t, and i don’t wish to either. I just don’t understand why there was a need to take his already shady and shitty behaviour and embellish it to say he was convicted of fraud, when the truth would have been adequate.
Took years for pirate software to be outed as a fraud, he also ran a YouTube channel for years pretending to have been a game dev at blizzard.
Except Pirate isn’t fraud as in stolen valor, in the case of him it was just the house of cards of over embellishments finally caught up with him.
David was in Microsoft early and for a long time. Thinking he’s lying about that part is a bit rich.
Wait, believe what?
I promise real humans made Windows. Like, a lot of them. It’s not that weird.
But beyond that, trust me, that is this guy’s entire personality. I believe he uses his Microsoft access card with his picture as an image in thumbnails often. Which I’m now realizing I’ve judged him for when it’s probably in response to getting this type of reaction a bunch.
Well that’s the thing though, he claims he did a bunch of stuff at Microsoft and all of it is conveniently very fun to say in a YouTube video for views but literally none of it is verifiable. It would be fine if he was trustworthy but he’s also going around claiming “as an intern, I shipped a lot of major features” which that’s just straight up false, interns don’t do that.
At the very least, I would take all claims made on his wikipedia article that are not immediately followed by a citation with a massive grain of salt.
The fact he then went on to sell registry cleaners and support contracts is telling.
Hi Sandy, I hope you’re doing well, but that is incorrect…
This is astoundingly weird.
I mean, he didn’t show up from the ether to make this tweet, he’s a semi-well known youtuber, his anecdotes about his time at Microsoft have been reported in specialist press often and to my knowledge nobody at Microsoft ever went “hey, we don’t know who that is”. No matter how many grains of salt you take on uncited Wikipedia content, there are enough citations there to verify his identity, from local newspaper coverage of his career to links to public talks mentioning his background. He has frequently namedropped coworkers at the time, who to my knowledge haven’t contested his accounts. The Wikipedia page in question isn’t even a hagiography, bringing up his failed companies and legal issues surrounding them.
I don’t mind skepticism, but this is paranoia. Is it possible the guy is a bullshitter whose wide reaching lies have somehow not triggered a rebuke from the people he has specifically named? I guess weirder things have happened. Would you be questioning his background if he was saying something you don’t perceive as disagreeing with you? Absolutely not.
I have no more reason to question this guy having worked at Microsoft (and on the Task Manager specifically, which is a really weirdly mid-tier thing to brag about for twenty years if you didn’t do it) than to think Niccolo Venerandi didn’t contribute to KDE Plasma because he has a Youtube channel. It’s just a strange way to react to this.
It’s easy to lie about this stuff and not get called out by the company or employees. See: PirateSoftware
Yes, famously never-called-out PirateSoftware
You are not immune to propaganda
Wait,.did PirateSoftware not actually work at Blizzard?
Brother, he got away with it for years without being called out. Are you stupid? Did you really think I meant that he was never called out for it? Sometimes the shit you nerds say is downright incredible.
Why wouldn’t you?
What do you believe the existence of a dormant Microsoft account does on your device?
Instead I look at the sky and I feel nothing
Tonight the sky is empty
But that is nothing newYou know I hate to be alone.
I want to be wrong.
He has made this video with Dave Cutler. I strongly doubt there would be any reason for Cutler to give an MS PirateSoftware any free endorsement.
You’re gonna need to be more specific
Funny that this comes from a Windows dev.
Well, yeah, he’s a dev and an end user, and not the one calling the shots.
Was like 20 years ago
Dave’s trying to justify their work.
Is Dave Dangerous?
I mean I wouldn’t trust him he did popups saying you have a virus install my software. So not exactly a standup person.
Dastardly Dave
I can assure you his intent was not to justify but rather to clear up a myth and help people
He has never outright said “modern Windows sucks” but he has indirectly alluded to that being his opinion many times, e.g. in one livestream where he was setting up Windows 11, he opened up Task Manager and said “wow, there’s thousands of open handles when Windows is just idling and the user isn’t running anything… huh…”
He is of the opinion that Windows 11 is trying to force people to throw away perfectly good machines because of the stupid TPM requirement, as you can tell by his videos from a few months ago
He has also revealed multiple times that he daily drives macOS and only uses Windows (in a VM) when absolutely necessary
David Plumber is a former Windows engineer, and has a YouTube channel where he shares stories about his time at Microsoft.
Of course he has positive Windows opinions, and of course he yaps about it like he’s an expert: because he is
His “expert” opinion is quite dated
He wrote task manager. I trust him.
The only Microsoft’s app that I used everyday, multiple times a day in the past. Just to avoid the computer from completely crashing.
I watch his videos from time to time, he stays quite up to date when it comes to the underpinnings of modern software engineering. Mind you, just because he retired doesn’t mean he stopped tinkering and building. By all accounts he is still poking around in a number of projects and contributes his fair share of expertise. I’m not a fan of him not outright calling out Microsoft for their bullshit, but I do respect the sheer amount of expertise he brings to the table. Calling him out of date, particularly with the level of understanding needed to make something like a task manager, doesn’t seem fair.
Really? It seems pretty up to date since he’s talking about something that happened in the last year or so.
deleted by creator
He also loves pretending he developed every single Windows dialogue box, tool, application, default software and interface element, when the truth is more like:
He says quite the opposite. He’s pretty open about what he was involved with and how long it’s been since he’s worked for MS. I’ve watched quite a few of his videos. He’s not what you claim.
I don’t know who needs to hear this, but you don’t need to smell shit while eating it.
You do need to get it down your throat, but you can just keep your nose pinched with your fingers, same as MacOS.
After that, throw up as much as you like. It’s what I do. Total calories delta: 100 kcal
wild kink but I don’t judge
much
This comment is missing the word “Linux”
Doesn’t he think Linux is bad or a disease or something.
3 what
Understandable. Have a nice day.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
D’oh, why can’t I have no kids, and 3
I dunno, I don’t think he meant “three.”
The :3 emoticon sometimes means “a dog” (if the eyes are on top), and sometimes means “a guy wearing a chef’s hat” (if the eyes are on the bottom).
So, time delta :3 could mean “the time you’d rather spend playing with a dog,” or it could mean “the time it takes to make a nice meal.” It’s more than three either way. And not worth installing Windows when you could use that time petting a dog.
Okay grandpa, let’s get you back to the old folks home so you can get your meds…
This pisses me off. If the text ends with “minutes”, “minutes” is shorter than “show more” and thus the interface should have just shown the fucking remaining text instead.
There’s also a picture of the win 7 logo that’s hidden
Amazing :3
3 time
decades wasted on windows
I’d say that’s an undercount but 1995 seems a reasonable start date.
[19]95
start [date]
heh
3 units.
Yeah I was about to say “since when” about MacOS, good thing you added the note. Windows is objectively just more data hungry than MacOS. The fact that you need to sign in to use the default calendar says it all on Windows
Can confirm. Been using it without an account for several years. It still infuriates me that they ignore default app settings in favor of their own shitty unremovable apps.
I have seen someone change default apps on Win11 recently. I’m a Linux user tho, but if I rememer correctly, it was in the Settings app, which is a bit confusing, because there is also a Control Panel app and both change mostly different settings.
I was discussing MacOS
It ignores it? Doesn’t really happen for me, I have Smultron for my text editor and cog for music player, never has the default apps popped up instead. Are you sure you didn’t forget to click the “change all” inside the get info for whatever file you’re working on?
Yes. I’ve changed it 17 times. Every media file still wants to opens in QuickTime. Clicking links sometimes opens in Safari.
oh, i see. i thought you meant to confirm that for the calendar in windows. thanks for clearing that up.
I could have been more clear.
Microsoft will continue to eliminate workarounds. Copilot needs your data for training purposes. Snapshot, Onedrive, mandatory accounts, are all ways of forcing users to give up their data.
I personally think the workarounds are an intentional strategy to drip feed the “power users” and make them stop complaining/switching away. it also probably works to make them feel smart.
like do you seriously fucking believe ms would unintentionally leave
oobe\bypassnroas a command you can type?? this is some Hollywood hacking type shit
Does that read as justifying it? It sure seems like he’s providing a workaround, same as all the people who used to point at the simple shortcut to work around the requirement when that worked smoothly.
I mean, I, for one, hadn’t thought about it. It’s not a terrible way to go about it. Doesn’t help me, I need a MS account to do Office stuff so I may as well, but if you’re really hung up on this and can’t avoid Windows it’s a decend solution.
“same as MacOS” is clearly trying to make excuses.
It’s also wrong. MacOS allows you to go through setup with a local account and doesn’t force you to connect to the internet either
I mean… is it? I’ll take everybody’s word for it that he is incorrect, since I’m not a Mac OS user, but while it certainly makes it sound that Win11 is doing something common he’s still providing a workaround for that thing. He can simultaneously be going “it’s not that uncommon” and “but also, here’s how to work around the problem” in the same post.
Whether MacOS truly also requires an account is irrelevant.
He says it to make the account requirement appear normal. That’s justification. Providing a ‘workaround’ via a ‘burner’ account is simply a way to minimize protests. Even the use of ‘burner’ and ‘workaround’ normalizes the account requirement.
The man has some good videos but he is Microsoft through and through.
…
I mean he used to work there, so yeah?
You saying the accuracy of the account requirement in MacOS is irrelevant makes me wonder if it is incorrect, because… well, no, it’s not irrelevant. I’d like to know. I mean, I will continue to use Windows because I need Windows things, but if I was in a position where I’m mad about this to the point of making me look for a clean break that would be a fairly relevant thing to know.
What I’m hearing here is that people are mad about what he’s saying, not because he’s wrong or because it’s not useful, but because this is a Linux community and people want this problem to be as big as possible to wield it as a dealbreaker to specifically promote the OS they like. Which is, I’m guessing, why you don’t sound stoked about MacOS not having the same issue?
Weird as it is to root for specific pieces of software, I also don’t find that particularly useful because, frankly, people using Windows already know how good or bad Windows is. Trying to overplay it is not particularly constructive to promote alternatives. You can acknowledge the ways in which people can work around annoying Windows stuff and still point out you don’t need any workarounds on Linux, if that’s what you want to do.
I mean he used to work there, so yeah?
He is biased.
The factual accuracy of his statements about MacOS is irrelevant to whether he is making excuses or not. Their relevancy to you switching to another OS is another issue.
I don’t care about MacOS not having the same issue because I don’t own a Mac nor do I plan on buying one. Nobody even asks me to run MacOS software or help them with their Mac. Windows is unfortunately much more pervasive and unavoidable.
The major issue with these workarounds is that they are presented as permanent solutions. They are not, just like Microsoft took away OOBE or whatever they did, they can also disable local accounts in the future. Kicking the can down the road will not work forever.
Nnno? To any of that?
I mean, he’s biased, you’re biased, whatever. The question is whether his information is accurate. Which I’m assuming it is. I haven’t tested it, but nobody seems to be disputing it. I’d personally like to know how much an activated Windows using an offline account phones home, if at all, and what data it shares and stores, but I’ve noticed nobody seems to care about the specifics of that in this fanboy flamewar, which is frustrating.
In any case, accurate information from biased sources is still accurate, and not sharing the same biases you have isn’t deception.
Also, nobody presents these workarounds as permanent anything, he hasn’t made that statement or even implied it. Most people sharing the previous workarounds actively warned that they seemed like an oversight and MS may patch them out at any point. Which they ended up doing.
Again, this seems like you equating caveats with dealbreakers for the sake of pushing an agenda. And as someone who uses both Windows and Linux on the daily I’m just gonna say you’re not helping. Misinformation makes people who notice it less likely to side with you and everybody here can notice it because we’re all tech savvy enough. I guess being the hardcore guy acting all uncompromising makes you feel cool or whatever, but it’s not doing much of use.
Yes to all that!
Everybody is biased but usually the deeper the connection one has to a side the more biased he is. I 've been just a user of Linux since 2010, he worked for Microsoft for longer.
If you really are interested in accurate information, you are not very good at it. People are disputing his statements on MacOS in this very thread, on the OP in fact.
Telemetry does not depend on using a remote account, if you don’t disable the relevant settings and services windows will still send data to Microsoft. Obviously a Microsoft account provides more identifying information to Microsoft.
I wonder why most people, according to you at least, warned that Microsoft would disable previous methods but Plummer doesn’t.
As for all that ‘agenda, hardcore, uncompromising’ bullshit, I 've only installed Linux on my own and my immediate family’s computers, cause they are the computers I will have to fix (or fix) if they are not working. I have installed Windows many more times both on my own machines as well on friends etc because that’s what they wanted. There’s no point in pushing stuff on people.
You on the other hand seem to think I should be helping with something, presumably something you are pushing for?
Finally I did not post any misinformation.
But it isn’t a work around it’s just accepting the fact you need a microsoft account to setup windows.
I’m confused. What is “not accepting” a MS account to set up Windows? I mean, if you don’t have to use Windows and that is a dealbreaker for you, then great.
But if you need to use Windows and you want to… you know… work… around… having to be logged in, he’s suggesting a way to do that. That’s what we call in the business “a workaround”.
As I said elsewhere, I get that people want this to be a dealbreaker, or the suggestion to be a pointless defense because this is a Linux community and there is a cultural pressure to pretend that the account problem is a massive dealbreaker (as opposed to most normies just going with it, just like they do on their phones, which is what actually happens), but OSs aren’t football teams. You can both criticise MS for having an online activation requirement, rightfully so, and acknowledge a potentially useful mitigation for anybody who needs or wants to use the OS without being constantly logged in.
It’s a dealbreaker for me. Along with many of MS’s other business decisions.
But I chose to do something about it by switching to Linux, instead of incessantly bitching and moaning about Windows while still using it.
Hell, my work laptop is a Surface 7 running Windows 11 Enterprise. But work pays for and manages it, so I don’t worry about it having issues - I just email IT and they handle it. Not my problem. I’d rather spend hours in a bash terminal than deal with Windows on a personal device ever again.
I am so furious with this at this point.
And the problem is, I also get what’s going on. You all feel cool and proud and self-actualized with the whole thing where you moved to Linux and whatnot. And you really, really, really want to tell somebody about it. I get it. It’s social media.
It’s fine the first few times, but it piles up after a while, you know? You can only have somebody veer sharply to the left towards “I use Linux, by the way” so many times.
Nobody asked if it was a dealbreaker for you. That didn’t happen. And even if someone did it’s not relevant to the conversation we’re having. We know.
Look, again, it’s not you. It’s just that hanging out around this place and trying to engage with the issues can get to be really weird after a while.
I was agreeing with you.
I can’t count the times some Linux fanboy has mischaracterized a post to shit on the average Windows user just trying to get by.
I get liking Linux, and I do, but come the fuck on, people.
You actually don’t need to setup an Apple ID to startup a Mac.
Yep, kinda funny how even Apple is more lenient in this way. The only downside is that you can’t install stuff from the App Store but that’s basically a non issue.
Yeah, for a Mac you can generally install anything you need from the devs website.
iPhone not so much, but you don’t need an ID for that either, technically.
Maybe the idiot meant iOS?
They don’t make it very obvious but you can skip Apple ID sign-in during the iOS setup assistant too (unless they changed that in iOS 26)
Source: worked Apple support for years until recently
You don’t need an Apple ID to setup an iPhone either.
You do need the Apple ID to download any apps though (maybe not in the EU these days?)
Claim: you don’t need a Microsoft account to run windows. Here’s how.
Step 1: set up a Microsoft account.
It’s not an awful take to say something like “Hey, you can get around this requirement by creating a burner account, then creating local accounts”. His wording is a bit off but he’s an odd guy, who also used to scam people, so this isn’t that bad in the grand scheme. He’s also heavily biased to windows.
On the topic of the account, I moved to Linux and I threw an LTSC build of Windows 10 on another nvme drive so I could play a couple games that use anti cheat. I figure by the time that’s no longer supported developers will just accept Linux in their games or i won’t care anymore.
How did he scam people? <citation needed>
https://lemmy.ca/comment/19382367
I’m guessing this is what they’re referring to?
One bummer about ‘burner accounts’ in 2025 is it seems to be increasingly difficult to have a true anonymous burner account that doesn’t involve someone getting your PII. A few short years ago you could just get a disposable email address from a bunch of places and use it to sign up, but now everything seems to be super locked down to where you either need an existing email address or a phone number to create an email account, both of which tend to have ways of being tied back to you.
I don’t know if there’s even any email services left that will just give you an account no questions asked, but I’ll bet if there are they’ll already be rejected as invalid by the big players.
Dave is amazing, and his content on YouTube is very entertaining. This is a pragmatic answer for those who want or need Windows in some capacity, and then want to go on a use local accounts. Have some decency and recognize good advice when you see it.
It only really works if you maintain access to a burner account, which might be difficult in the long term.
It’s useful information for those who need it, but the way it is presented sounds delusional and contradictory.
He says you don’t need a Microsoft account, but goes on to explain actually you do need a Microsoft account.
It just sounds like pure cope.
For some people even needing a burner account is absolutely off the table and in no way a solution, and the fact of the matter is that an account is now required.
> Content creator who got massive recognition for Windows and used to work for Microsoft
> looks inside
> WindowsI swear the people in this comm behave like Christian missionaries
Since everyone is dogging on Dave for his MacOS comment - I doubt he even realized MacOS has a “skip” option for the Apple ID.
Weird hill to die on, guys.
That’s not what the expression “Hill to die on” means…
That’s what she said.
Ok.
Weird thing to obsess over.
Obsess? I don’t think that word means what you think it means…
You don’t need an account on Windows either (just pirate the pro version)
Dave Plummer is the same guy who thinks Linux is a disease
Does he dislike Linux?
I’d not heard about this before. Admittedly I only knew him from his cute anecdotes about early Windows development. Did a cursory search and I found this thread on Reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/rb2xzk/dave_plummer_aka_daves_garage_former_microsoft/
There’s a pretty interesting comment by a user called Kefim_Wod, I’ll quote it here so you don’t have to visit that shitty site unless you want to.
TL;DR I don’t trust what that guy says anyway.
I really enjoyed his youtube channel until I found out about the business practices of his earlier company SoftwareOnline.com, Inc.
His company was sued by the Washington State Attorney General’s office in 2006.
Here is an excerpt:
The defendants agreed to pay $400,000 in civil penalties, with $250,000 suspended on condition of compliance with all terms in the settlement. They must also refund consumers who have filed complaints and pay $40,000 in attorneys’ costs and fees. The settlement terms prohibit the defendants from engaging in the following practices:
- Inducing computer users to install software by misrepresenting that the user’s computer is at risk for crashes or privacy and security invasions.
- Marketing its InternetShield software by means of a “free scan.”
- Using “buttons” in its advertisements that do not function as the user would expect them. For example, the X found in the corner of a window is normally associated with closing the window and should not open another ad.
- Installing software on a user’s computer that causes multiple pop-up advertisements when the user tries to close out of advertisements.
- Failing to provide a functional uninstall option for removing all software files.
- Failing to obtain a consumer’s explicit consent to purchase a product or a service.
Direct links to associated court documents: SoftwareOnline.com Complaint
SoftwareOnline.com Stipulated Judgment & Order
You can also find them at the bottom of the webpage I linked earlier.
Here is an article from 2009 that mentions it.
He greatly downplayed these events in his book but I’m taking his word with a grain of salt.
I freely admit that I developed a bias towards him after realizing he is a multimillionaire. Learning about that in combination with the information I detailed above really soured my perception of David.
I have the belief that more often than not very wealthy people are wealthy because they have taken advantage of other people to obtain that wealth.
I wanted to give David the benefit of the doubt because I really enjoyed watching his youtube channel but one google rabbit hole later and I felt like my belief was reaffirmed.
Also, the post includes this image, which… I mean it’s certainly a take.
He seems like a M$ grifter. Big shocker.
The audacity. Saying that Windows is loved by millions is like saying a victim is in love with their rapist. Windows is forced upon millions, not loved by them. Everyone would choose something else if there was serious marketing for other options
the X found in the corner of a window is normally associated with closing the window and should not open another ad
God dammit Dave, this is sick and twisted.
What is he talking about?
I don’t think anyone knows.
What’s the deal with the Linus blob? Is that based in any truth?
I know very little about Linux kernal or its politics, I just use it sometimes.
He’s full of shit. There is no “secret” binary code blob that only Linus wields so I have no idea why he’d blatantly lie like that over information that’s publicly available. Linux’s kernel is all open source so no idea what he’s talking about. He probably read some random shit on the internet and ran with it. Linus couldn’t claim the Linux kernel as his own legally anyway because thousands of developers have contributed to it. The lawsuits would be out the ass if he tried. The only thing Linus owns is literally just the word “Linux”
No one seems to have any idea. In the thread some people are talking about him perhaps referring to propriety drivers or firmware, but you don’t need to compile the kernel with them.
Dave Plummer is the same guy who thinks Linux is a disease
I guess, maybe in the way that a vaccine is a disease.
@possiblylinux127 @pastermil in my life, I literally saw everything and am seeing more & will see more & more because of dumb people & non-techies who installed pirated versions of winlol, for example, ones without support for UWA meaning many software that depend on that feature but have essential functionnalities and a winlol version that accidently cannot delete anything, & more, so I advise you to stop recommending this to people
Never ran a copy of Windows at home was wasn’t pirated. What the fuck are you on about?
So, how long have you been in the IT field? I got 20-years, started programming in the 80s as a kid. Oh? You’re a child? I can tell be your so fine prose.
@shalafi since I began on 2 Years old in 1994 until now I guess 31 years
And I really debugged, I really debugged, I never installed a pirated OS on my personal laptops but I stayed 5 years from 2012 on the support for the m$ club on my faculty & I still am but significantly less for winlol & more Linux, I met ms. Linux in 2008
I know you think 2 years old is too young but believe me, using the computer without being able to read anything used to be easy, especially when you have some assistance
Finally, some sense.
