Ok so idk if this is the most appropriate place to post this, but are the extreme views and statement we see on these platforms really just “bots” and “internet noise” are these genuinely the worst parts of humanity?
For context/elaborating on it, I kinda drifted off from lemmy to reddit due to lack of content here and holee fuck, its just horrifying, the amount of pro genocidal statements and cheers for extremism genuinely makes me feel at extreme unease, but it also makes me ask a question. I come from a conservative southasian society and whenever you bring up topics like treatment of minorities, lgbtq+ rights, feminism etc, people normally dont comment on this stuff or make a “harmless joke” out of it, but seeing reddit pages of the same grp of ppl it makes me genuinely feel that these guys hold on to genuinely insane beliefs, and are just afraid to present it to anyone in person…
Whenever I check Reddit poster history it is almost always a bot with zero comments. In Lemmy I see the posters’s usernames commenting everywhere. Granted the usernames here aren’t all (adjective)_(noun)_XXXX
No way, beep bop, there aren’t any bots on the internet! Beep-doop-bop
There are a lot of not very nice things on the internet, the meat bags are mean sad beep bop
Reddit is populated by a lot of bots. Most social media is. This is the new propaganda war and it’s been going on for well over a decade. The bots do drag people along with them, but it’s a lot of bots, man.
I recently read an article though i forgot which outlet, which was about how israel funded sm crazy amt of money to manage its image on social media, seems pretty plausible considering how monotonous and repetitive pro israel comments are…
I think it’s generous helpings of both.
Reddit has become a profit-driven cesspool, even more that it was before their IPO and the LLM craze.
It is still home to great communities, so don’t drink from the firehouse, google Reddit+interest and only visit those communities. Subscribe if they match what you need. Ignore the main feed, it’s a perennial garbage dump.
The bigger the group of people, the more bad apples there are among them. It’s just statistics - plain and simple. Reddit is a huge platform, so there’s naturally going to be a great number of bad people there. Something to also keep in mind is the gap between how bad someone truly is and how bad you imagine them to be. We’re pretty quick to judge and label people, especially online, based on just a few lines of text. It’s highly unlikely that one’s assessment of someone’s personality as a whole, based on a handful of social media comments, is anywhere near an accurate representation of their actual views.
Also, these same extremists are just as present here on Lemmy - they just mostly fly under the radar because it’s a rather homogenous group of people from a political standpoint, and those extremist views therefore tend to align with your own.
I would have to disagree, i dont really like every opinion here, it can get rather extreme, but there is a difference according to me over suggesting extreme action towards oligarchs, institutions which have hurt people etc etc (which is what i mostly see on lemmy) vs cheering on the death of innocent people just because they r of a different kind, although i should clarify here these extremist views are not that present is smthng like r/all but rather seems region dependent
In order to be civil, thoughtful, and graceful, a person needs to reflect and understand complexity. The platforms of the internet incentivise the opposite. Extremity is louder than resonability so it floats to the top of the discourse.
Additionally, seeing 100, 1,000 or 10,000 people on a platform, from around the world, express shocking or anti-social viewpoints represents an infinitely small sub section of the population. A group that includes provacateurs, bots, nation-state actors, and wing-nuts.
The real trouble comes from others who aren’t taking time to reflect, who see this content every day and begin to believe that it must be valid because they keep seeing it. Slowly they twist and adopt pieces of rhetoric because there isn’t enough of a counter balance of opposing views sharing the same weight in their feeds.
What you consider to be civil, thoughtful and graceful I might consider barbaric, thoughtless and brutish.
This goes for every statement of yours that entails some sort of objective threshold beyond the argument that those who speaks the loudest are often the ones that are heard the most.
I’m sure we have opposing views on some subjects and I maintain that I might have spent more time reflecting on them than you. Does that mean that you are wrong and I am right? Or perhaps that we reflect on things in different light, inevetably ending up with different conclusions - Both equally valid?
After reflecting on the topic of subjective world views for quite some time, I feel I can confidently hold the latter opinion.
If people communicating in a public space are of differing opinions regarding a topic, and all can claim truthfully to have reflected thoughtfully, and understood the complexities of the topic, then disagreements about the topic can still be communicated gracefully to one another. If left unpersuaded, they can agree to disagree and part peacefully. The act of the discourse is valuable even in disagreement, either to re-enforce ones own convictions or to soften a stance when presented with new information.
I’m fairly confident that the OP isn’t referring to discourse and debate but rather comments or posts that unnerved them. I suspect the comments were some shade of anti-social, ignorant, or violent from their perception. I’m speculating on the specifics, as I’m working from the same post you saw.
If you want to talk about objective and subjective thresholds of truth vs. fact and determination of what is considered valid, I’m not sure this is the right place. The OP seemed to be concerned at the prevalence of concerning rhetoric online, at least, that’s what I took from it. A broader philosophical discussion might be better served in it’s own post/comments.
I’m curious about the tone of your reply. My perception is it seemed combative and contrarian, though I can’t be sure that you intended it that way. Your comments seemed to be directed at me specifically rather than at the ideas only. Am I misinterpreting your meaning?
Hmm, yeah ig it maybe a fair possibility that most are just agnostic, and get influenced by opinions that are propagated by a ridiculous amount of funding
Reddit is not the worst parts of humanity.
That would be /b/.
Shhh, we do not speak of such places. We do not wish for people to know their names and seek such dark recesses.
I was too young when 4chan was arnd lol, afaik /b/ was some unmoderated canvas or smthng right?
Yes. You can and would stumble across the worst the Internet had to offer on /b/. Hardcore shock porn, CP, gore, extreme animal abuse and torture, etc. Was not a good place to hang out for anyone with a shred of decency. There’s a reason they call it the asshole of the Internet.
Back in 2014 or so, when reddit was getting bigger but not big enough for the mainstream yet, I noticed a half dozen accounts that would just post on r/toronto, r/chicago, and other popular city subreddits.
All they did was post about crimes committed by visible minorities, and attempt to derail posts about visible minorities being the victims of crimes.
They posted like it was their jobs, but I don’t think they got paid for it. These are people who are so scared of minorities they volunteered a significant amount of their time trying to convince others to be afraid.
Reddit is not really anywhere close to the darkest parts of humanity. They’re “merely” extreme in some cases.
The problem is this:
makes me genuinely feel that these guys hold on to genuinely insane beliefs,
That’s irrational. I know it doesn’t feel that way, but you have a belief system and from that belief system, they look insane to you, but also vice versa.
You know that saying “the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent”? Kind of the same is true for ideologies. They’re not rational. People just believe stuff and occasionally they can get interrupted, shown a contradict and if you’re lucky they will reconsider. But it’s not automatic or guaranteed.
And something that’s dawned on me as well, is that we have some kind of “historic, cultural optimism” that assumes that of course, justice, truth, rationality, tolerance will win. That’s not actually a guarantee. And even if it does work, it’s not guaranteed to work for you in your local environment.
For a different example, a lot of history that we have records of, slavery was an accepted reality. Is it “genuinely insane” to hold that belief? We think so in modern times. But it was normal a mere few hundred years ago. And if it wasn’t explicit slavery some different social orders that were effectively the same existed.
tldr: no, that’s just normal human behavior. Our filter and our “higher standard” is the weird thing. You’re not like that and neither are your friends? Good. Cherish that exception. Try to preserve it.
Ok, maybe I’m exaggerating a bit for the effect. But still, you get the idea.
you have a belief system and from that belief system, they look insane to you, but also vice versa.
Everybody is somebody else’s fucking idiot.
I mean if you push me yes i can get how people might feel “polarized” by the ideas of “accepting” feminism, lgbtq, or other groups, but advocating to kill and destroy then, maybe its just me, but directly opposes human conscience, I am not exactly sure how can you cheer genocide when you actively see people suffering who are trapped in such situations
maybe its just me, but directly opposes human conscience, I am not exactly sure how can you cheer genocide when you actively see people suffering who are trapped in such situations
Considering the amounts of war and genocides, both in the current era with “modern” sensibility, not to mention historical atrocities…
You’re in the minority for sure.
Fair.
What are the ideologies of the people that own Reddit, X, etc… and who are they willing to hurt for it?
That is really the heart of the question here.
Reddit is leftist by US standards. Even though Spez is reportedly Republican, that doesn’t seem to be reflected in the platform’s operations. Instead they’re ruining it by making the content shittier and introducing stupid crap like automatic moderation that shadow-hides many comments for no good reason.
I would appreciate if u can clarify what u mean, but as far as my own understanding goes reddit and X themselves dont seem to actively remove posts/comments that dont adhere to a particular worldview/ideology, if i am not mistaken? Reddit relies on mods and i dont have much knowledge about X.
conservative southasian society
Friend, you ain’t seen nothing. I’ve seen stuff in the US South that you wouldn’t even see in Reddit. Stuff you wouldn’t believe, and I’m afraid to type out, stuff way worse than “If that n***** steps foot here again he’s getting lead in his belly.”
Personal beliefs (and drama) can be pretty extreme.
…That being said…
Lemmy’s extreme too?
I see dead serious “we should bludgeon X and his family to death” posts that make me very uncomfortable. Mods don’t care. When .world admins step in, the community cries censorship and ‘extremist right wing.’ I’ve almost left Lemmy over it.
Maybe sh.itjust.works is better about that, though.
Maybe racists keep in on the down low around me, but I live in the South and never hear anything racist. And as a middle-aged white guy, and somewhat of a redneck, I’d expect them to think I’m safe to rant to.
When I moved here 20-years ago, I experienced racism from black people like never before, weirded me out. Can’t remember that last time I felt that. We’ve all changed.
Counter anecdote though! Traveling Mississippi last year with my Filipino wife was distinctly uncomfortable for the first time. Can’t put my finger on it, can’t describe a single incident, but I felt we were shunned for the first time. Those people were formerly outgoing and hospitable. Not now.
Oh that’s it. There’s the veneer of Southern Hospitality (and a lot of it is legitimate) but folks keep the nastiness behind the curtain. Like, I have family that looks back on their aunts and uncles and had no idea they were racist until they thought a lot about some incidents, or caught something weird.
It went both ways, 100%…. Reconstruction failed. There’s a lot of resentment.
Much of what my anecdote was about, the veneer has slipped. And yes, much of it is legitimate. Much seemed to come from, “I’m not the racist my parents were!” But it was weird and borderline scary seeing that veneer peel off on that last trip.
I see dead serious “we should bludgeon X and his family to death” posts that make me very uncomfortable.
Common fedpost lol.
Yeah…
Actually i also left lemmy partly because it can get pretty black and white too, but honestly its much better than any other form of such platform rn tbh
Btw idk if u r confusing south asia with southeast asia but trust me when I say its not pleasant here lmao
Btw idk if u r confusing south asia with southeast asia but trust me when I say its not pleasant here lmao
Fair. I’m a bit ignorant of how it is there, heh.
honestly its much better than any other form of such platform rn tbh
Yeah… Outside of a few more niche focused places, anyway.
The ‘brainpower’ here on Lemmy is higher too. Like, when I lurk in my old niche Reddit subs (which I can’t post in since I’m inexplicably shadowbanned?) I see no academic discussion, mostly memes. No decent help on question posts, but hostile responses or probable bots, even when I know the exact answer OP needs and can’t give it.
Well i remember when i first made my first ever lemmy account like 3 yrs ago and that process of figuring out all the instances and federation thingy prolly filtered most binary thinkers out i suppose haha😅
the amount of pro genocidal statements and cheers for extremism
whenever you bring up topics like treatment of minorities, lgbtq+ rights, feminism etc, people normally dont comment on this stuff or make a “harmless joke” out of it
Not sure what corners of Reddit you’re browsing, but from what I’ve seen on r/all, the active majority don’t make extremist statements and don’t make jokes out of minorities (with the exception of the weird “women am I right” on r/SipsTea). In fact, Reddit is pretty leftist by US standards, considering USians are the majority of active posters and commenters.
However, it does have a penchant for ridiculing both Pakistanis and Indians — which, though, is lately supported by Indians themselves posting videos of uncivil behaviour on r/indianrailways and such. Plus, Indians and Pakistanis on Reddit do disparage and dismiss each other — idk about any particularly extremist sentiment. But this disparagement is typically limited to Indian subreddits, which mostly consist of ethnic Indians — judging by the prevalence of Hindi — who I guess have strong feelings on the matter (dunno about Pakistani subs, as I haven’t seen them).
Also, Reddit is implementing automated moderation lately, which does stuff like detecting bigotry based on nationality. This moderation is very stupid and ineffective so far, as it removes one comment and issues a warning, while hundreds of comments with the same sentiment are visible plain as day, but don’t contain the same keywords. Meanwhile many completely innocuous comments are getting hidden because the automation felt wonky about them.
You are right that the european/US side of reddit is uhmm decently left leaning (apart from the strange fetish for israel, not sure how many of them are bots), but the indian side (the one which was the most prevalent in my feed) was absolutely horrifying; i perhaps should have made the distinction clear hehe in my original post
