As is typical for the US, 1/3 are deeply aware, 1/3 are in full “patriotic” support, and 1/3 are too distracted by the latest TikTok dance to notice.
In a burning house with three people, one is fighting the fire, one is pouring gasoline on everything and one is on the couch watching TV.
Let’s add a 4th person in there, someone who thinks they’re helping by doing nothing but yelling that the fire isn’t allowed to burn things
More like yelling at the one fighting the fire because they’re getting water everywhere
“If you had just picked a better water bucket, we wouldn’t be in this mess. It’s your fault if the house burns down.”
If more of you would have voted for Jill Stein, we wouldn’t be in this mess!
/s in case that wasn’t obvious
It’s you. They’re talking about you.
Please, elaborate…
Democrats are the ones criticizing the ones actually trying to put out the fire but doing jack shit about it.
What’s more, they’re the ones who doused the house with gas not a half a year ago, and whenever they’re not delighting in the terror going “oh I bet you must love it, you didn’t vote for the lady with the matches and now you got the guy with the flamethrower” they’re passing his budgets, they’re complying with Musk’s unelected goons, they’re getting on with his Gaza agenda and largely silent about the protestors getting kidnapped.
Asking for donations isn’t resisting, it’s ransom.
I really don’t like how y’all just described everybody
I wish 1/3 of the USA were trying to put the fire out… The majority of this third are just watching in horror how the fire consumes their house
They are really earnestly and as hard as they can trying to put the raging fire out with a cheap children’s water pistol that isn’t working very well.
100% this. Every other memper of my family voted for this. I do my best, but they’re so blinded by the media and their own bias that it’s almost impossible to convince them on even 1 topic.
Its incredibly sad and frustrating actually
The fact that you are there and aware of what is happening to your country is hope for change. I always sound doom and gloom in my posts but I’m also hopeful for the change. I’m Indigenous Canadian and my entire life has always felt like failure in everything me and my family has been exposed to for generations. The greatest thing I learned from all of it is to never give up … even in the face of overwhelming odds.
And Lemmy is disproportionately representative of the 1/3 who are aware.
If you look at the comments on a random public social media post, you’ll find the delusional third or half.
It basically boils down to where they’re getting their information, or rather, whether it’s information or “information”. A large swath of the population is so propagandized by right wing rag “media” that they are functionally incapable of rational thought.
I think there’s another 1/3 - maybe at intersection of them all.
A great many people in shock, and don’t realise this is just America mask-off.
It’s standard American foreign policy and has been for 60 years. The wars they have started, the regime change, it’s all standard. Ask anyone in South America or the Middle East.
am from south america, can confirm. my country was couped by the cia, and we are still suffering from the consequences.
*100 years … America has been doing this since before any of the world wars
I don’t think that applies here. 1/3 in each group is fair for domestic matters. But, OP is asking about perceptions of the US by people in other countries.
In that case, even the 1/3 that is opposed to what’s happening will contain a lot of people with no idea how the rest of the world sees the US. For example, of the 1/3 of Americans who deeply oppose what’s happening, what fraction do you think actually read Le Monde or Deutsche Welle, or are even aware that they have an English-language service?
And, the 1/3 that is fully supportive of what’s happening will contain a lot of people who think that this is improving how the rest of the world sees the US. Sure, some will be aware and will still be defiant in the face of how the rest of the world is reacting. But, others will be watching Fox News or Newsmax and will hear propaganda that convinces them that the rest of the world admires and respects the US more than ever for taking a decisive stand against the deep state.
So, as with anything involving something happening outside the US, I’d guess more than 50% of Americans have no idea what the rest of the world is thinking.
should have voted democrat i guess
I see a lot of people starting gardens or looking to getting chickens to be as self sufficient as they can. Many are holding off on large purchases to save in case “something happens”. People around me who were never interested in firearms and in fact were generally opposed to them are starting to arm themselves at a rapid pace.
Good luck with the gardens. I’ve never really been a fan of US gun laws, but now it all seems strangely sensible.
This is the literal, specific scenario 2A was intended to counter. We’ll have to see over the next few years if it works as intended.
I’m not sure thats right. I think the 2A was written in order to enable the US to be able to organize militias to defend itself against foreign invasion as, at the time, the idea of the colonies supporting a standing army was impossible.
It’s both.
Your reply to osaerisxero was correct and made more sense before he ninja-edited.
People invoke 2A usually lie, and the reason to arm themselves is to kill dark skinned people they don’t like.
The US don’t have a few years it will probably not exist at the end of the years if nothing is done
Never underestimate how much damage a dying empire can do when lashing out trying to hold on to power. The world needs to prepare to deal with the US for decades if necessary.
A empire will exist for sure but it won’t be the US anymore
It will be called that. But that’s kind of already happened.
In most of the US they have HOA who likely forbid such things for an absurd fear that a slightly uglier house down in your street will tank your property’s value.
I bought several fire arms recently and asked the local gun shops in a very generic sense about how sales were. All three claimed traditional winter slow sales and reported no uptick in sales. Also the local pawn shop guy has a ton of guns, there aren’t any ammo shortages, all the paper work is sailed through no delays, the conceal and carry course I was required to take to carry a pistol was no where near full and the instructor said things are slow (but his class did kind of suck it was just the soonest one near me); that’s been my experience the last three months.
I’ve always been interested in firearms, but not interested enough to convince my wife we should own any, well, she’s convinced now! and I never had to say anything, so I agree with your comment.
Interesting, but not surprising that this doesn’t really answer the question. The question was about whether Americans were aware of how the US was perceived outside its borders.
It largely depends on the location. For example, in the PNW, especially Western Washington and Oregon, people are very aware of that fact. Many around here are arming, protesting, and becoming more and more self sufficient.
For their part, the Washington State government has sued the Trump administration multiple times, and for now, has blocked some of the executive orders in federal court. Of course, that depends on Trump following court orders, which as we know, he’s more than willing to ignore.
Meanwhile in states like Utah (where some of my family lives), they still have their heads in the sand, and don’t seem to be bothered. Not to generalize, because some people there are aware, but they’re outnumbered by the ignorant public there. Many people there who are aware are either trapped due to financial reasons or are actively trying to leave for blue states.
I have seen that some GOP voters are starting to feel the financial burn, but most of them still try to blame it on Biden.
Of course, that depends on Trump following court orders, which as we know, he’s more than willing to ignore.
I think that’s been one of the biggest surprises to this European spectator - that justice can be ignored if you’re powerful enough in America.
We had glimpses of it with the first end-of-term pardons. Then Biden did the same for his son, and Trump released all those who committed treason in his name on his first day of his second term. All those people were fund guilt after due process, but someone can unilaterally say “let them free” and they’re out. I totally understand the lawyer quitting his career when Trump was “pardoned” for his own crimes after being elected. Biggest case of his career, years invested in training and work and he played a blinder - only for it to be turned to nothing.
So we’ve learned that if you’re rich in the US (because rich == powerful there like nowhere else in the world) then you are untouchable by justice. For a country that was literally born from a civil war, that’s a pretty huge failing of its constitution.
deleted by creator
The only reason I know this is because I’m only interested in one particular firearm and I want to move to WA, but how are you planning to defend yourself with HB1240 in place?
I get that in peace time, 10 bullets per mag and no assault weapons is a generally good policy. But what happens MAGA decides to try to take WA by force?
In the part I haven’t looked up, does WA have a state militia that is not the national guard?
Additionally, you can purchase “parts” bags/kits which are marketed as “repair accessories” for 11+ rd magazines(usually 30 rds for 5.56 and 7.62). These somehow skirt around the law from my understanding. You’re buying the complete mag, but assemble it yourself.
Not to encourage this as I am not a lawyer, but mags purchased before the bill was enacted are grandfathered in, meaning that you can still own them, you just can’t buy them. So, if you own any already, you’re likely fine as far as I can tell. I know that some people just go to Idaho to buy them and then they bring them back. Definitely illegal, but mags aren’t tracked in any shape or form so they do it.
The semi automatic rifles themselves, as long as they were registered before the bill passed, were also grandfathered in. I’m not sure if out of state purchases count in that or not, though.
I don’t believe there’s any sort of official “militia”, but the SRA is very active in the region and may qualify as one.
I was not a resident when the law passed so I cannot be grandfathered in
Just get something fairly common and a 10rd compliant mag.
Much of hb1240 also only applies to sales and imports, but doesn’t ban ownership, so you can still have an ar-15 for example if you buy before you move.There’s plenty of higher capacity shit in the rest of the US, if it comes to a point where you need them, they’ll make their way in. Just reach hook up with your local branch of the SRA when you move there.
WA does have a state guard, but it’s like 50 people iirc.
I looked into it. If I buy one before I move, as soon as I bring the rifle into WA, it counts as importing.
What’s the SRA like? I’m not a socialist and am hesitant to be affiliated due to the path the NRA charter
Lie and deny
Just buy what you want and shut up about it. Don’t tell or show anyone. If bullets start flying no one will care anymore
Seems like a pretty shitty way to live life
You can decide how you want to live or what you’re willing to die for
Ah, I didn’t realize that counted as importing, turns out only people who already own one in Washington can bring one in if they previously left the state with it. Guess the answer is either dont do it or don’t get caught. The best answer is to ask a lawyer though. The NRA might have someone you can talk to for free if you’re willing to put up with dealing with them for a little while. Just use a disposable email / phone so they don’t bother you after.
The SRA varies a lot by chapter, it’s not really a national org in any meaningful way, but both the chapters I’ve done stuff with were pretty welcoming to social democrats. What would you describe yourself as? I might be able to give a better answer.
My local chapter is a mix of communists, anarchists, and soc dems. We also do open-invite firearm trainings, and have had some liberals show up recently, but none of them have really stuck around.
If you’re concerned about maga getting violent you’ll find like-minded people in the SRA, at least on that. If you’re open to being in an explicitly leftist space, I’d probably check them out, in case shit does hit the fan, you want to know people you can ally with.
Elizabeth Warren-aligned.
Okay, that’s like the worst answer to be able to tell lol. It’ll heavily depend on what the branch is like. My local one? You’d be welcome, but a couple people would try to radicalize you.
I want to fix a broken system not destroy it and make a new one? IDK what you are looking for lol
I live in Utah, it’s about 90% people cheering at Trump and 10% very polite demonstrations against the right that are highly criticized. Feels so muted here.
This doesn’t seem to be actually answering the question. The question was about how the US was perceived by other countries, not how Americans perceive their own government.
Huh?
Are people in the US
Are people in the US
Yes, go on…
aware that they are now definitely a rogue state
The question isn’t your awareness of what the government is doing. It’s your awareness of how the US is perceived by the rest of the world. A rogue state is “a nation that is considered very dangerous to other nations”. To answer that question, you have to reference other nations views on the US.
I don’t think I agree, and many in the thread didn’t get that idea. People outside of the US are obviously aware, the title is clearly asking if people inside of the United States are aware. Why would someone outside of the US have to ask if people outside of the US are aware? It makes no sense.
also (emphasis mine):
people in the US aware that they are a rogue state
It makes no grammatical sense if they’re asking about opinions outside of the US.
How can you be this confused?
You’re basically proving the point of this meme.
The question is basically “Are Americans aware of how the world perceives them?”
Possible answers to that question are: “Yes, I read DW news in English, and BBC news too. I’m aware of how the world perceives the US.” Or “No, I can imagine how the world must view the US, but I only read US news so I can only guess.”
I don’t think I’m the confused one here, to be honest with you, as shown by the other answers and upvotes in this thread. You do not have to specify non-US news to know that we’re a rogue state - plenty of US media reports on it all the same. The question is clearly asking if Americans are aware that they’re now a rogue state, and I answered appropriately.
It seems like maybe you don’t want that to be the case, but my answer still stands: Yes, many Americans, especially in the PNW, are very aware of that fact. Americans in red states [the ones who watch Fox news especially] have their heads in the sand. You do not need to consume any media at all to be aware of that fact, it helps, but you don’t require it to acknowledge it.
I fully understand and acknowledge that we’re seen as a rogue state externally, and am painfully aware, as is much of the PNW. It’s the red states that think “we’re the best country in the world, and in fact, the only one that matters”, which is exactly what my first comment was describing. People in blue states are rightfully embarrassed and are trying to distance themselves from the federal government for precisely this reason.
I don’t think I’m the confused one here, to be honest with you, as shown by the other answers and upvotes in this thread
Yes, other people were confused. That doesn’t mean that you’re not confused.
The question is clearly asking if Americans are aware that they’re now a rogue state, and I answered appropriately.
No, what you answered was “How do Americans feel about being a rogue state?” That’s a completely different question, even though it’s the one most people answered.
I fully understand and acknowledge that we’re seen as a rogue state externally
The question was whether Americans in general understood and acknowledged that. I would say no, because most Americans don’t follow foreign news sources. People who are getting their news from Fox News, OANN and Newsmax are probably not aware of that. Instead, they probably think the US is even more respected than ever.
Imagine reading some fiction book, like fantasy or something like that.
You see a state that was created by genocide, which was continued until there was barely anyone left to kill, which state then became world hegemon, took control over nearly entire planet economy and proceeded to find new targets for genocide, ecocide, invasion, looting and murdering every political opponent.
You would think it’s caricaturally evil, worse than Mordor.
And here you ask “they are now definitely a rogue state”? Now?
True. But what I mean above all is that the US is now more unpredictable in terms of foreign policy than ever before.
Yeah. The usa has always been relatively evil… But also fairly predictable .
Also worth noting that pretty much every country ever has been evil, with a few notable exceptions —of which none of the eu are included in
Brits: phew, at least we’re safe!
What’s poor old Luxembourg ever done to offend you so?
A billionaire tax haven where over 50% of the labourers are non-citizens?
Probably something to do with money? Just a guess 🤷♂️
It sure does look more unpredictable, but is it really? They continue basically everything except trying to wrap up Ukraine and fuck up and loot Europe, but marxists were saying this will happen years ago already (and regardless of which government will be at helm), so it is by no means unpredictable. The one thing that changed is the presentation, it is more honest but more erratic, though it is again what anyone could simply predict looking at previous Trump term and process of building his staff in preparation to the last elections.
Fuck off with this fucking shit. I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland. I never owned fucking slaves. I wasn’t even considered white until a few decades ago. I am so sick of this shit from you people not understanding that so many Americans are here because fascism forced us here too.
I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland.
No, you’re there because the people already there decided to let your family in.
Them being in a position to let you in js a crucial factor. And the reason their society got to control that is because of what they had done to other people beforehand.
No one is asking you to feel guilt and no one is blaming you. But facts are facts.
You still benefit from white privilege. If it weren’t for your pale skin, you most likely would’ve been deported or murdered before you even tried. Your privilege in USA is still based on your skin tone. Now you’re supporting fascism here with you white victimhood story. Everybody in USA has some sad tale. Fuck off with your bullshit, yt.
That person is delusional. If North America were a group of Indigenous nations it wouldn’t have been a major immigration target for European refugees.
Roughly half of the population has absolutely no clue what’s going on. Kids, old people, non-news-readers/viewers, etc.
A third of the population is vaguely aware that some shit is going down based on vibes but can’t identify the problem.
Half the remaining sixth can identify the problem as political but misattribute the cause. Leaving just a 12th of the population actually aware of our situation.
SO BURST THEIR BUBBLE?
They are unreachable. This is the most heavily propagandized country on the planet and most don’t have the education to understand our political situation. Try and explain why corporate campaign financing is a bad idea and half of us start whinging about freedom of speech.
The fascists own all the media organizations. The population has been taught systematically since birth to have unyielding blind faith in the institutions of the state and capital. Many won’t understand that anything unusual is happening until they’re hungry and cold, burying empty caskets for their drafted children sent to die in fascist wars of conquest.
This is the closest anybody in the thread has actually come to answering the question. The full answer is that Americans almost never consult non-American news sources, so of course they’re not aware of how they’re perceived in the rest of the world.
Nope. They’ll still blame it on Biden.
Most of us are either completely deluded or utterly crushed by the collapse of our entire system of government. We know this is corrupt, and we want to organize to bring it to an end. But we have so many checks and balances that even if we all marched today with pitchforks and torches it wouldn’t effect any real change without burning down every police station, city hall, state house, and the federal buildings. All while hoping the military doesn’t show up and now us down with their weaponry. All the whole knowing that there has been a sharp rise in the popularity of police using violence and death as a deterrent.
In short, we know, and we can’t see any way out of this mess. It wasn’t supposed to be possible, and looking back we all saw it coming. But we were just dismissed as alarmists every time we spoke up and we are surrounded by morons who think this is the best thing that has ever happened to this national.
Mass strikes. Call your union, other unions, whatever union. Organise a mass strike day. Repeat it every week.
Unions? You think we have unions in the US? Most have been systematically destroyed by republicans since Reagan.
This is hilarious. Last time my union tried to do anything, Biden stepped in and stopped us. Then he took a victory lap about being a hero in to us while Congress forced a shitty contract down our throats.
If you went on strike republicans would have blamed Biden for not stopping it AND every dumb fuck American who never pays attention would believe it because they’d be directly affected and he was President.
Not like it fucking mattered in the end.
Call your union
90% of Americans have failed at this step. That’s not a joke or hyperbole, less than 10% of Americans have membership to a labor union.
Unions are rare here and trying to organize anything just gets you fired and jobless. Plus people are struggling just to eat, they can’t all strike. It’s really not that simple.
Based on the pro Trump people in my life, I’ve seen two classes:
-
Those in denial and ignorant in general (don’t really follow the news), who don’t believe for example that Trump is deporting people without due process, and blatantly violating the law and constitution.
-
Those who are so sucked into the MAGA own-the-libs circle-jerk that even when presented with the facts and proof of Trump doing something blatantly illegal, will usually retort with something like “oh so when the Democrats do it it’s okay, but now the Trump is doing it it’s wrong??? You fucking communist!”
Both I believe are the result of being fed far right propaganda by YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, etc. It’s the only explanation I have. These aren’t random people I don’t know. These are people I love and have known my whole life.
It hurts to see, and I don’t see a way to help them that doesn’t involve ruining those relationships. I avoid talking about politics around them because I know it’s going to make me resent them, and I don’t want that.
I have the experience. Close friends consumed by the alt-rightosphere. These are (arguable were) caring people who’d stop and help strangers stranded on side of the road. People I considered like minded. But now it’s “Democrats are pedophiles, Clinton flew with Epstein and here’s how the election was stolen” (the irony is not lost on me).
Trying to discuss this constructively just doesn’t work. It always ends with 😡👉"Your information is wrong and you’re being brainwashed"👈😔 you can show them all of the stuff but their eyes glaze over and they’re just thinking about how to find an article that either: Spins how the negative thing is actually good or just outright false.
You are just a bit right, because you base your politics opinion on few, literally just few examples that you know for the entire population. I’m not saying youre wrong, but well, your experience might suggest right people are caring, while left is not, while one’s experience might be the same but for left people. But definitely and we can see that in different surveys etc. that right people are just ignorant. They don’t care what their leaders do as long as it doesn’t impact them, and why is that bad? Because exactly the same way Hitler took the dictatorship. I believe both, left and right people are good, it just depends on a specific individual if hes not good, but the important thing in democracy is you have to care, no matter at which side you are, but you have to care about politics, and let the information in, not stay untouched when clearly basic humans right are being invaded.
Note, that this isn’t actually the question. It’s not whether Americans are aware of what’s happening, it’s about whether Americans are aware of how the rest of the world perceives the US.
-
There was never a point in US history that it was not a rogue state. If you believe there’s a period it wasn’t, you simply do not know enough history about the time period you’re referring to.
Or more likely, you believe white lives to be more valuable, and you take offense now that the US is directing their usual behavior towards white Europeans.
Yup.
What we are seeing now is a critical inflection point for liberals: do they do honest introspection and start to apply real criticism to the history of the US, or do they cover their ears and claim Trumpism is an aberration for which they have no reasonable explanation.
To put it simply, liberals now have a choice between
“Damn, this is really the outcome of the american political project, huh? How did we get here?”
And
“Trumpist fascism is un-American, and I am clueless as to how it took hold, but I am going to continue to vote blue no matter who!”
If the amount of liberals on .world bizarrely harkening back to the “good old days” of the founders, Reagan, Obama, and even dubya is any indication, I suspect most of them have gone with the second option.
Liberals are just as much reactionaries as conservatives. They simply disagree on which status quo they’d like to return to and who is acceptable to exploit.
the other guy pretty clearly meant liberal in a social & political philosophy sense and not a “liberal v conservative” modern american political theater one. i won’t speak for ferrous but i would imagine that’s why you didn’t get a reply of sorts yet. it’s kind of surprising and unsettling the amount of upvotes your comments have relative to each other but then again it seems reading comprehension is a skill more and more left to a select few.
like, anyone from .ml probably means liberal in that sense but in the particular context of this comment he definitely did and i’m confused why you’re getting upvoted when your reply is nonsensical considering liberalism is not diametric to conservative ideology within most frameworks.
sorry not to be a chode but wishy washy symbols like the ambiguity of the word “liberal” in modern discourse is a large part of what has landed us here in the first place.
[…] now that the US is directing their usual behavior towards white Europeans.
That’s nothing new, that’s happened before.
Then explain the shock coming from Europe.
deleted by creator
No, it hasn’t. The US is waging a proxy war that requires the EU to bear the consequences. They even destroyed one of your pipelines, and caused one of the worst environmental disasters in history right off the coast, and Europe didn’t make a peep about it.
That’s why I wrote “…now definitely a rogue state”. Not that there was much of a question before but now it should be obvious even to US-citizens.
Americans for the most part are only dimly aware there’s an outside world in the first place. The amount of covering up that needs to be done is minimal.
I had a friend that that looked like they were offended when they found out Australian Idol was a thing and it wasn’t just in America.
It wasn’t even originally an American thing, it’s from the UK.
Wait, is it just called “Idol” there?
Pop Idol.
Exactly. Hence the name distinguishing it as the “American” one… People (Americans?) are so dumb.
Yep. The concept that there’s a symmetry between countries is a few degrees of separation away from many Americans, I guess. It’s not weirder to have an Australian Idol than an American one. I’ve also had conversation where they assume people in other countries are patriotic for America. Like, even in the first world we all sit around wishing we were American.
Famously, many (most?) of them can’t even identify the continents on a map. I’d be interested to see Chinese tested the same way, since I’ve heard they’re on the same level of insularity, being another massive superpower.
It figures it takes someone calling themselves “CanadaPlus” to actually see the actual question and answer it.
Everyone else is answering about how aware Americans are about what’s happening, but the question was about whether Americans were aware of how the world perceived the US. The answer, of course, is “no, Americans have no idea because Americans consume almost no non-American media”.
This kind of question coming up a lot is why I chose the name, haha.
The average American voter is hilariously unengaged. Many of them read at an 8th grade level at best. We’re suffering the consequences of an education system that has been tragically underfunded for generations, and our media institutions are thoroughly compromised. Because of this, media literacy may as well be non-existent. The worst actors in our public institutions know this and have chosen to capitalize on it. Foreign interests recognize the obvious weakness in our social fabric, and they have been taking advantage of it to great success.
We are completely lacking the most crucial part of any functional democracy - an informed electorate. We have the least qualified people making the most important decisions.
The United States is effectively a failed state. Many of us recognize this, but our options for addressing the problem are limited. We not only have to dislodge the largest defense structure the world has ever seen, but we have to somehow fix the plague of weaponized stupidity that is conservative culture in order to ensure the worst humans don’t end up in powerful positions.
If you have any suggestions on how to start fixing that, I’m all ears.
For starters, understanding that American fascism is not the result of voters simply not being informed enough. The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument… then they’d see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
As we devolve deeper and deeper into fascism, it has been frustrating watching liberals flail to try and understand how the devolution is happening: is it because people are uneducated? Is it because of Joe Rogan’s podcasts? Is it because of Russian spies? Is it because Trump has started a cult? Is it because Fox News? Is it because lead was used in gasoline 50 years ago? Is it because we use lead water pipes? Is it because of Ronald Reagan? All of this waffling to avoid the hard questions. I.e, “is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?”
If you fail to start thinking about this devolution into fascism in terms of history, class, and material conditions, you’re always going to be hopelessly confused about the structures and frameworks that allow fascism to fester.
The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument… then they’d see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
Well said. And honestly, it’s even counterproductive, because that assumption is a core reason why people view the establishment Left as patronizing and elitist.
It also reminds me of one of my favorite Onion videos: https://youtu.be/lpzVc7s-_e8 (I like Judith Butler, and I’ve even read some of Gender Trouble, but the premise and execution just gets me in stitches every time.)
Well, I don’t think you’re wrong about an informed/educated populace not being sufficient to overcome fascism, but I have a hard time seeing us overcoming it without some level of education. Though obviously, the type of education matters (e.g., how kids are taught about Columbus is probably the most egregious example of a failure by the public school system to educate)
You educate those around you, not give up on them because “it’s not worth it” you fight for this even if it means your own mother disowns you.
is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?
No, but it is the only logical conclusion of a nation that continues to venerate those genocidal landowners as heroes.
Hey now, I resent that. I read at a ninth grade level!
If you’re really going to sit here and pretend that none of the things I mentioned play a clear and obvious role in our current situation, I don’t even know where to start with you.
Strawman. Never did I say that the things you mentioned dont play a role in facilitating fascism.
Poor education, MIC, captured media, sure… all of these things facilitate fascism.
My point is that your analysis does not get at the heart of how fascism arises or why america is going full throated fascist in recent years. Why do we have poor education? Why do we have a bloated MIC? Why has our mainstream media been captured? Why is conservatism increasingly in fashion?
You’re not going to get to the heart of these questions by ignoring class. You’ll especially fail to answer these questions if you just blame some nebulous concept of “conservatism” wholesale. Youve correctly identified the symptoms, but you still need to take the next step w/ class-based, material analysis.
It festers because people bitch online then go break bread with their fascist Republican families.
Which has made those of us that will say something the bad guys (look at how they label themselves victims of words now).
If you do not fucking say something to those people EVERY CHANCE YOU FUCKING GET this is your fault!
They HATE shame. THEY GOT HERE BY BEING SHAMED BY THE GOP. SHAME THE FUCK OUT OF THEM! Take the damn flag back and prove they are the anti Americans already!
No, I think you missed my point entirely. No amount of shame, facts and logic, or blasts will stop fascism.
Until regulatory agencies stop being captured, until people can own homes, until people can retire, until people can get healthcare, until people can get childcare, the fascist devolution will continue.
You’re still clinging to this ultra liberal idea that the “marketplace of ideas” is what ultimately turns the wheel of history and politics. It’s the idea that politics and history is driven by individuals taking ideological stances, and that the only way to change history is to change minds. This could not be more incorrect. I really encourage you to do some introductory reading into Marxism - which historically has been the greatest defense against fascism, as well as has the most comprehensive explanation of how fascism happens. Wage Labor and Capital is a great start.
Foreign interests recognize the obvious weakness in our social fabric, and they have been taking advantage of it to great success.
First step is to learn to stop blaming other countries for America’s failure.
Just ignored the entire first part of that, didn’t you champ?
Parents set the stage for valuing education. If there is no value on it at home it will be reflected in the kids and it will then be passed through the generations. Generation after generation of barely getting by and failure.
While I disagree with the “failed state” label (go look at Haiti) it certainly isn’t setting itself up for future greatness.
They are so unengaged because so many people spent years forcing the rest of us to “be polite” and not being up anything political at all for fear it would rouse MAGA from their slumber.
The amount of times I started to say shit and got jumped on by shit libs to protect the feefees of MAGA is uncountable. My own fucking husband does this to me while his maga family had the nerve to bitch me out for not having a baby yet (this was most recent). You all FEAR those losers so much you let them do this to us!
GO SAY SOMETHING TO YOUR FUCKING RELATIVES ALREADY. God damn GO SAY SOMETHING TO THOSE FUCKING TRAITORS UNTIL THEY DISOWN YOU OR LISTEN. DO IT FOR YOUR COUNTRY ALREADY!
Oh, we fucking know.
Doubt it.
What non-American news sources do you read? Do you really think that more than 50% of the US actually consults non-American news sources?
The West Coast is well aware. I really can’t see anyone in the US not being aware of our country’s wannabe fascist status, even though some will plead ignorance. I’m kind of hoping maybe Oregon, Washington and California will get together and ask Canada if we can join them… with a probationary period of course. No one in their right mind can trust us outright at this point.
No thanks, our conservatives are further to the left than your Democrats, and California has the population of the rest of Canada combined. You can make your own country
I agree about the Democrat party, but I wonder if the regular people of those states aren’t closer to Canadians in their views. If they were to join I imagine the existing party wouldn’t carry over and new ones would need to be organized.
There are some workable solutions inside the nation as well, as the federal system is dismantled. If WA, OR, CA, HI, the tribal counsels, and maybe AZ and NM (if they can play nice) got together, we could do a number of things to shore up the left part of the US.
First, states are not subject to patent. Each could choose a critical, expensive medication and produce it, sharing supply around the compact. Tribes could easily make epi-pens for their share.
Second, tie this into a compact equivalent of a multi-state healthcare that creates a floor healthcare for all citizens. Hawaii could lead this effort, they essentially already have it in their state. Get to the point you can cover people with income up to $70,000/yr california equivalent (based on living expenses) and let healthcare companies create supplemental plans like for medicare.
Third, as trump wrecks FEMA, form compacts for emergency response with mexico and canada and among these states. This is not currently legal but if FEMA is gone, why not just do it and who cares.
Fourth, create cooperative food sharing among states for excess crops. Federal programs just got destroyed, and california has a lot of excess supply. Let the compact members have a market where they can, as states, buy excess for their food programs. Let the program deal as an entity with non-compact states, which isn’t controlling interstate commerce, feds, it’s just the free market at work using the power of liberty to make red states either meet the price or we look outside the US.
A lot of this just recreates existing structures that are being destroyed, but leaves the red states that destroyed them to fend for themselves.
It just makes me very happy that you’ve done some deep thinking on something like this. First real smile I’ve had in a while.
For most of the democratic world, the US Democrats are right wing, like Canada, Australian mainstream. conservatives are to then left of the Democrats…eg it was Australians mainstream right wing party that brought in compararively draconian gun laws (by US standards)
Yea plenty of people in the south are aware too, things aren’t “hidden” this isn’t north korea or turkmenistan… yet. As someone else said we’ve known this is what they want to do for a few years now.
Maybe if us west coasters make life a living hell for Shitler, he’ll sell us to Canada. Just tell him it’s a good business deal. He’s so dumb he might just do it.
Please, Canada! WA and OR would make a lovely drive on your way to CA! We know they’re the big prize but take us too! 😭
Shitler would never let CA go.
CA is the forth largest economy in the world. It would humiliate him to let CA leave the union.
@selkiesidhe@lemm.ee
@DandomRude@lemmy.world @MadeInOregon@lemm.ee
While CO put Lauren Boebert on the world stage, we are generally down to ignore federal authority. Rember when marijuana was illegal? Unfortunately that would require getting Montana, Idaho and/or Nevada on board. Seems unlikely.
Those three states would more than double the population of Canada and overwhelm their political system. I wouldn’t do that if I were them.
Kinda on topic, but imma give you some perspective into what it’s like to be a liberal leaning person in a deeply red county. Half my friends are independent or republican, all my coworkers and my boss are republicans, and even my dad is straight up MAGA. I’ve always voted third party because I hated that Democrats never get anything done, but I did vote heavily democrat this past election because I knew how fucked everything would be.
I would say 99% of people do not care or don’t think it’s a big deal. The ravenous Trump supporters you see on the internet and in videos are more of a minority than the norm. There are definitely some hardcore MAGA here but most everyone is just regular everyday people that are just carrying on like nothing is different. Most of them don’t spend much time on the internet and they hardly watch the news. I was talking about the tariff situation to a cashier at a gas station just this morning and it was the first time they were hearing it. And with the news not even covering half the shit that’s going on they probably never will. My roommate works downtown and he didn’t even know about the protests at the Capitol until I mentioned it to him 3 days later.
I guess my point is that the average person isn’t even informed. Not everyone spends a lot of time on the internet so they don’t even see what’s going on. They decide to vote specifically because the candidate says “Republican” and that’s the furthest thought that goes into it. Everyone talks about “this is what they voted for” as if any more thought went into their vote for Romney or McCain than their vote for Trump. And I don’t blame them for it because as far as they know, this was just like any other election. They’ve been bamboozled by local news to think everything is still exactly the same as they slowly pushed the Trump agenda onto them. The hardcore MAGA are definitely fascists in every sense of the word, but these regular everyday people are not fascists. They were just voting for the party they always voted for and were just expecting the same kinda shit from Trump’s first term, and the local news didn’t tell them anything different.
Hugs from Germany. It must be painful to watch this unfold. Now everybody can see live how it all happened in Germany. And it is still possible that the fascist wave will roll again over Europe too. I hope we don’t, as usual, copy every trend from the US with a few years delay…
Oh man, that can’t be true. I’m so sorry for you that you’re surrounded by such ignorant people. It must be hell that nobody really listens to you. I’m really sorry for decent people like yourself and probably many of your colleagues, who I’m sure are good people in themselves. Tell them that the US is now an ally of Russia - maybe they’ll understand.
deleted by creator
I hope that people outside the US are aware of how quickly the rhetoric is shifting within the US. The right wing machine is rapidly spinning up a normalization of the ideas that: the US doesn’t need allies at all, the US has zero obligation to abide by international treaties, and the rest of the world is available for us to take. By ‘take’ I mean utter economic dominion and/or military conquest and/or territorial annexation.
The speed at which things are deteriorating here is shocking. An imperial US is a terrifying prospect. This deranged, entitled joke of a country has both an effectively endless supply of armaments and a depraved indifference to the suffering of people abroad and here at home.
The world has a metastasizing US problem.
Nothing is really changing. It’s the exact same system as under genocide joe. It’s a continuation of a loooong history of violence.
