Hey all. Getting right to it:

Last November, a majority of my wife’s family voted trump. I immediately made known my disgust and that I had no interest in maintaining relationships with any of them. My wife is equally appalled, but family is important to her and she chooses to compartmentalise it for the sake of their relationships. That’s her call. Typically, her mother comes to stay at our house for an extended period as we live far away, and this year I tolerated her being here for the sake of my wife.

But now, thinking about the next visit and how bad things have gotten, I can’t even stand the thought of having her in my house, let alone being in the same room as her. I really don’t want her here at all, but I will again tolerate her for my wife’s sake. However I think it’s likely that I will make myself pretty scarce during that time.

So the ethics question is - given that I expressed my distaste after the election but still remained cordial, is it ok, ethically speaking, to become more resentful as the consequences of their actions become more apparent? Or, given that what has happened since is pretty much out of everyone’s hands, am I locked in to the level of hostility I showed immediately after?

I guess the distilled version is - a person does X, I express disapproval. Is it ethical to express MORE disapproval as additional unforeseen consequences of X become apparent?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Edit to Clarify - My mother in law is not MAGA and I don’t think she’s enjoying any of it. She thinks we can “just not talk about it” and everything will be fine. However she has become more racist and judgemental (anti-trans etc) in recent years. Hates Joe Biden and Kamal Harris but can’t or won’t say why. Thanks for the responses so far and I’ll try to respond, but I’m about to start work shortly.

  • rumschlumpel@feddit.org
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    2 days ago

    Do they show any kind of remorse, like “I didn’t think it would be that bad”, denial “I don’t believe [bad thing] actually happened”, or are they straight-up going “serves them right, fuck them kids”? If it’s the third option, I wouldn’t even let them into my house anymore.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      1 day ago

      Kind of in the middle, ignore it and it doesn’t exist. If she was full maga then definitely not allowed in the house. My wife’s 2 sisters are and I’ve made it clear they shouldn’t bother coming to our city expecting to be invited into our home.

  • magnetosphere@fedia.io
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    2 days ago

    However she has become more racist and judgemental (anti-trans etc) in recent years. Hates Joe Biden and Kamal Harris but can’t or won’t say why.

    I’m gonna guess that it’s because she watches Fox “News”, and that she can’t say why she hates Biden and Harris. She’s simply heard so much anti-Democrat rhetoric that she’s parroting it.

    Ethically, the choice seems easy. While specific events may be unpredictable, the themes of hatred and authoritarianism were obvious to anyone who was genuinely paying attention during the campaign. They knowingly voted for a complete piece of shit. They voted for someone who had tried to overthrow the government when things didn’t go his way. He had already been convicted of bribery and sexual assault before the election even took place. The man is simply unfit for office.

    Your level of resentment is by no means “locked in”. You have every right to be angry.

    The best thing you can do is communicate. Talk with your wife. Show her your post. Don’t keep your resentment bottled up - that’s not healthy. Hopefully, the two of you can come to a solution that doesn’t harm your marriage. If her family doesn’t like it, too bad. Through their (deliberate?) ignorance, they helped create this problem in the first place.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      1 day ago

      Excellent reponse, and sounds a lot like one side of my internal debate. On the one hand, since we moved away the only family she’s got left are welded-on republicans. But on the other, she’s been around for the last decade, and not knowing what she was voting for has to include some portion of wilfull ignorance. My wife knows how I feel, because she feels the same. She’s just very conflicted because she’s always been incredibly close with her mother, and severing family ties isn’t something she would ever consider possible. I intend to spend a lot of time in my home office during the next visit, and my wife knows that now.

      • magnetosphere@fedia.io
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        1 day ago

        Thank you for the compliment. Your marriage is my primary concern. I hope things work out as well as possible!

  • RBWells@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    With my ex MIL I stay friendly because she’s great in so many ways, and just act completely ignorant when she says something awful, for example:

    ExMIL: I’m looking for a church but can’t find one that is Christian enough.

    Me: Oh, I understand. So many are just so worldly now and not at all Christ like, they don’t welcome the stranger, they do that prosperity gospel nonsense, culture war bullshit instead of good works. That makes sense.

    ExMIL: oh I meant they are too progressive, too loosey goosey (Paraphrasing)

    Me: Huh?

    Or

    ExMIL: I don’t understand this trans nonsense.

    Me: I know, right? Who gives a fuck what someone else says they are! You say you are a boy, you are a boy, it doesn’t have any effect on anyone else, I don’t understand the drama around it, at all.

    Basically whenever I get a chance I just intentionally misinterpret it like there is no possibility that she meant that, because nobody could possibly mean that.

    • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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      13 hours ago

      I’ve tried this. It usually ends up with them thinking you’re kinda dumb, which is ironic. But they almost never get the point and make the connection either way.

  • artifactsofchina@lemmy.world
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    17 minutes ago

    Not in America so viewing you as on the front lines of this present catastrophe.

    Please do everything you can to avoid further entrenching resentment.

    It looks like your country is so bitterly divided. I’ve visited once, and my impression was then that there is a lot more grey than any media or the internet conveys.

    If you’re living close to someone who supported that maniac, please do what you can to build bridges so that they can find a way back to sanity. I get that it’s not fair and that responsibility should fall on them. But realistically I think you need to be the adult in the relationship.

    Please do what you can to build bridges and be compassionate, curious. Own your own sense of moral outrage and dignity, but give these people space to make their mistakes and learn from them, without your judgement. Direct your hatred and anger against the acts that upset you, but be gracious and kind in your relationships. Allow your mother in law to be wrong. Honour whatever is good in her.

    Don’t be a player hater!

    If she says something racist, don’t just let it stand. But where you can, see if you can draw out her reasons. See if you can uncover the true fears behind the scapegoating. Just let her be heard, without judgement. Be curious about the person. And where you can do so with humility, share your own beliefs and what is important to you. But share in the interests of being known, not of flag bearing.

    Give yourself space where you need. It’s OK to feel strongly, and to be upset. But please, do the work to build bridges, don’t let your family be divided by an utter madman.

  • Mark@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    It’s your and your wife’s home. So your rules apply. Make that agreement with your wife beforehand. So there are no fights afterwards.

    Things like;

    1. She must not address you. Basically act as if the other person does not exist.
    2. The visit will be as short as reasonably possible. For longer bouts with her daughter, your wife can visit her mother.
    3. She must be humble and accept the extreme difference in views.
    • BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      She must not address you. Basically act as if the other person does not exist.

      The MIL has already offered to not engage in politics, take her up on the offer. Batting away the olive branch just comes off as childish.

  • Sorta. Anger and resentment tends to fester continually so ensuring you make your grievances known one way or another can help. If you do want to make it known, but cannot have a healthy dialogue, I personally recommend you write it out, and once you have it dialed in you can send it or hand it to them if you wish.

    Personally though, I’d def say that making sure your sweetheart of a wife knows how your feelings have been and continue to move is just as if not more important. Has she mentioned the how and why she managed to tolerate politics given everything?

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      1 day ago

      She feels much the same as I do, and I know she struggles with it a lot. For me, the moment I found out, they all got moved into the category of trump supporters, who I have no time for. But for her, it’s obviously a much bigger deal. I don’t press her on how she should handle it, just support the way she chooses to.

  • Mugita Sokio@lemmy.today
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    2 days ago

    I think you married into a Catholic or Christofascist family. They clearly take the Mark of the Beast by obeying the Pope at least (in historicism, we believe and show that the Pope is the Antichrist). Your wife’s family clearly participated in their own demise, which is why I didn’t vote nationally, and instead, voted down ballot on the state level (again, to clarify, for my state, and not nationally, as national elections are selections).

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      The mark of the beast was a reference to Nero.

      Which was known by the people at that time. (Which is why when it was translated into or from Greek- I forget which version was first,) the Greek version’s number was changed to reflect the Greek pronunciation of Nero as Neron.

      Daniel’s “Antichrist” was similarly understood to be about a ruler contemporary to when the book was written.

      I suspect your attacks on Pope Leo are politically motivated and you’re spouting whatever bullshit sounds good to justify it.

      • Mugita Sokio@lemmy.today
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        2 days ago

        Nero was 616, not the trihexa, from my research on the matter. I verily feel for you, since you’re trying to shift blame away from the Antichrist Beast Popes, as Vicarus Filii Dei (the Latin for “Vicar of Christ”) = 666. It’s clear you’re taking the Mark on the right hand by obeying the Pope.

        Preterism was created by the Jesuits (around the same time futurism was), and its purpose was to shift blame away from the Pope (because they knew the Pope was the Antichrist since Simon Magus started Cahtolicism, and not Peter (who was elsewhere at the time)).

  • ruuster13@lemmy.zip
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    1 day ago

    This is not an ethics question; it’s an emotions question. You are angry, becoming angrier, and hold her in part responsible for the reasons you are angry. What you do about it could become an ethics question if you engage in something extreme, but otherwise - who cares? Think about how actions might affect your relationship with your wife then choose what you want to do.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      1 day ago

      Huh. 🤔 Big points for flipping my perspective! The only action I’m planning is to spend as little time as possible near my mother in law. My wife is everything to me, her family are nothing.

  • J92@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Id just talk about it being disgusting like they didn’t vote for it. ‘Other it’ around them and try not to put it like you’re attacking them. I’d say, for the sake of your family connection by way of your wife, you have to stomach some degree of it. Engendering division only helps the goblins like Miller and Bannon.

    I’m talking as someone who’s mother and father voted for Brexit instead of trump, and I refuse to act like it hasn’t been a gigantic fucking mess.

  • LambeauLeap@sopuli.xyz
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    1 day ago

    Dude please please please don’t let Trump ruin your marriage. Not allowing your MIL to stay for her annual visit when your wife wants her to is gonna be a big big problem

    • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
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      22 hours ago

      It’s not ruining your marriage to insist that treason, racism, intolerance, pedophilia, etc. isn’t acceptable in your home. If your wife chooses that over her marriage, then you are better off. She can live with her MAGA mother for the rest of her life.

  • TonyOstrich@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I should preface everything I’m about to say by saying there is probably a reason you are married and I am not, and that my response is probably wrong.

    I lived a somewhat similar experience during his first presidency and COVID. Personally, I would have the most issues with my partner. By ignoring the abhorrent behavior and decisions of their family and choosing to interact with them anyway, they are condoning what their family is doing. Even if they are somewhat vocal in their disagreement, the family is avoiding the consequences of their actions since the spouse is still giving them what they want.

    If my spouse shut them down and called them on all of their bull shit, I’d probably be OK with them continuing the relationship, but most people aren’t willing to do that.

  • mvirts@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Resentment is usually a feeling which has little to do with ethics.

    Actions are more easily analyzed for ethical value.

    I guess that you’re considering the action of showing resentment by being absent or cold to them.

    From a utilitarian perspective this could serve the purpose of communicating your resentment indirectly which may increase the overall good by preventing this scizsm from infiltrating other parts of your life and others. On the other hand this outcome is not guaranteed.

    If you apply value ethics of your actions it really depends on what ideals you hold yourself to.

    If you take a completely honest person as your ideal, direct communication is probably more ethical than indirect communication, but indirect communication would still be superior to deceiving them into thinking you agree with them in any way.

    Instead, you may idealize an honest pacifist who would value indirect communication higher than direct if direct would also come with conflict.

    These are my thoughts, I am by no means an expert in ethics.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      you may idealize an honest pacifist who would value indirect communication higher than direct if direct would also come with conflict

      This is the approach I’m going with, though I’d classify it more as isolation than indirect communication. Earlier this year I told the mother in law that her proud maga children are no longer welcome in my home and that turned into a bad night for everyone. After that night I decided I’d just keep myself away from her as much as possible.

      • magnetosphere@fedia.io
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        1 day ago

        I’m glad you took a stand. Surgery is “bad”, but it’s a lot better than just pretending the problem doesn’t exist.

  • TryingSomethingNew@sopuli.xyz
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    2 days ago

    Just make sure she’s aware of the consequences of her actions. The amount of detail or tangentiality is up to you. If she’s smart she’ll STFU about it and it can be civil, if not cordial. But feel free to pull out the “I’m glad you like it when they zip tie kids” as needed.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      1 day ago

      I think I’d prefer to leave that to my wife, who isn’t shy about doing that. I got involved one time earlier this year (alcohol was involved) and I ended up being the asshole in the wife’s eyes. It was grossly unfair in my opinion, but that one time was enough for me to stay out of it permanently. Next visit I think I’m just going to not be around. I have a home office to hide in.

  • LordMayor@piefed.social
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    2 days ago

    I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to avoid your MIL. I also think it’s reasonable for your wife to maintain the relationship.

    Can you use her visit as excuse to take a vacation—alone or with friends—or visit your family? Given the circumstances, I think avoidance is a perfectly valid option. Get some you time if your wife is cool with it.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      1 day ago

      I’m definitely planning to not be around the MIL much. I have a home office to hide in. I’ve briefly considered taking a weekend camping here or there, but that would hurt my wife as camping has always been an us thing. But when I say she stays for an extended period, I’m talking multiple months in a normal year. Guess I’ll just install some computer games! 😉

    • magnetosphere@fedia.io
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      2 days ago

      This is by far the most reasonable compromise I’ve seen. OP, if the MIL absolutely must visit, this is a completely fair thing to demand in exchange. You are making a sacrifice for the sake of your wife. If you’re willing to be flexible, she should be, too.