I saw some posts about american wanting to move to Europe; so just before you guys make the move, double-triple check insurances/banks, because literally every time I (not american) do smth financially related in France, they ask me if I am american? If yes, they won’t even open accounts/ give me insurance etc… Sounds discriminatory but apperently because legal
I dont know if that expands to any other field
EDIT: lol i am now wondering what are people are downvoting for? You dont like that fact, so you downvote whoever told you that fact? Some reactions are hilarious
This is one of those little catches anyone preaching to their relatives to emigrate don’t say about.
I live in a third world country, and until Trump, nearly everyone wants a fucking green card thinking it’s gonna make them happy.
If you have two nationalities, couldn’t you just be sneaky and never tell the authorities of the country you moved to? If you’re not planning on going back, for example, what would be the problem?
My experience is that in most cases, when asked about your nationality in a form it’s easier and normal to only give one nationality.
Like at the airport, even if I have multiple nationalities I only give one passport, I just have to make sure it’s the right passport (the one with the visa for example).
However in there case of back accounts, insurances … They ask specifically “are you a U.S. citizen ?”. In this case answering no to this question would be a clear lie.
Sounds like fraud. As long as no one finds out you’d probably get away with it, but you would be committing tax evasion according to US laws.
If you really don’t want to go back you can get rid of your US citizenship and avoid the problem.
I wonder if you could/would get extradited for not paying taxes to Uncle Sam. 🤔
But yeah, just renouncing the citizenship seems to be the way forward if you’re not planning on coming back.
Don’t think extradited, but US would try to garnish/seize money going into that account, which is why foreign banks don’t want to deal with the hassle of having a US customer. The extra legal requirements to have an account for you is just not worth it to them. The exception is only when you have a great deal of money, and then they can actually make money from your deposits. But then that amount of money in a bank is a sure sign you don’t know how to manage your money.
It’s not because they banned us citizens. It’s because the us government is one of the few ones that wants to tax stuff that their citizens earned in other countries, so banks and similar they need to report wealth and income to the government
The checkbox isn’t “if you’re American we can’t offer you services”, when you select that, then you have an extra form to fill, that’s it
It’s because the us government is one of the few ones that wants to tax stuff that their citizens earned in other countries
One of exactly two.
Looks like you’re right, thanks for the link! Even though most of these countries only tax non-resident citizens if specific conditions aren’t met, there still appear to be more than two that do it more or less unconditionally.
Yes it’s a pretty short list and with some caveats. Actually I almost didn’t double check when reading your message, as “only the US and some dictatorship” (e.g. use of metric system) is usually how these things go, but I was curious and found the wiki page.
This is not because anyone wants to discriminate against Americans (maybe they do, but it’s unrelated to this rule), but because of rules the US forces on the rest of the world. There are special tax reporting rules for US Persons that banks have to obey if they want to be able to do business with the US at all. If you can’t or don’t want to follow those special rules, avoiding having US Persons as customer is the easiest way to comply.
I’ve worked for several Dutch banks, and US Person is a special category they have to deal with. No other nationality has this. Maybe Ethiopia? But that’s easily ignored. But nobody ignores the US. They have no choice but to comply. Vote for a different tax code if you don’t like it.
Google FATCA, the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.
Anyone anywhere in the world that is either US citizen, or a green card holder, or in other ways related to Murica, must pay US taxes. It’s insane, but the US tax system is powerful enough to bully all other countries into compliance.
Don’t get me started. 🤮
is powerful enough to bully all other countries into compliance
But not to tax the rich or corporations at all.
Exactly, how about the president pay taxes first lmao
Wish the American populace were brave enough to dump their tea in the harbor like before
They can do anything they want. That is just something they don’t want to do. Again, 🤮
Citizenship isn’t free. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it, too.
Wow, I’ve never seen a post get a whole 100 downvotes before. This is a special moment for me.
It’s peak regime indoctrination in action.
Yeah, taxes are supposed to support services for people living in a country. Their comment is exceptionally dumb.
Oh but the cheap labor from non-citizens should be free from basic human civil rights protections, right? /s fkn idiot, you make me ashamed to be in the same country with you
I got mine for free, how much did you pay for yours?
Funny, because it’s free everywhere else. Sounds like a bit of a shithole country.
Except for maybe eight countries. The US, North Korea and a few small Pacific island states, if I recall correctly.
The US, North Korea and
Gotta love how these two countries are suddenly being used in the same sentence all the time lol
Wait, is there actually countries out there where you don’t pay taxes?
I’m guessing they must run off a very heavy business tax because the money has to come from somewhere in order for the government to be able to operate.
Or is it the gov just says “this will happen” and always has a blank check with no requirement to repay.
Don’t misunderstand my comment. I think it’s ridiculous for a country to expect you to pay taxes without living there. But like, taxes would be your citizenship burden
If you renounce your citizenship the US government still expects you to pay taxes for the next 10 fucking years. Do you think that sounds reasonable too?
Haven’t heard that before, that’s wild
No they don’t, this is why Boris Johnson gave up his American citizenship.
(https://www.ftadviser.com/content/7fdbf645-1cc6-5f78-b01b-10c9c9eff904)
I’m wondering how the fuck are they even gonna know you paid them or not. If I am living in Germany, with a German employer, why the fuck are they telling the US what my wages are?
Because otherwise none of their customers will be able to do business with the US. They would like their customers to be able to do business with the US, so their only options are to either follow reporting rules for US Persons, or avoid having US Persons as customer. It sucks, but it’s the US government forcing this on everybody, and because of the economic dominance of the US, the rest of the world has no choice but to comply.
Ah, there’s the solution.
Stop doing business with the US.
I only see this as a win.
This isn’t about Americans’ obligation to pay. It’s about hassle being forced upon foreign companies that have fuck-all to do with America (except for having American expat customers), to make them help collect the taxes on the US’ behalf.
In other countries, you pay taxes if you actually live there. If I move to Spain and live there for enough days per year, my taxes go to Spain, not Estonia.
The US system I believe means you get double taxed if you live and work elsewhere, although I’m not 100% sure.
I think you can usually deduct the taxes you pay elsewhere, but you will still have to file your taxes, which is apparently a rather painful process in the US.
Who the fuck is getting cake!? The only thing we’re eating is shit from the Oligarchs.
I got it as a baby with no money
You wouldn’t download a citizenship
It literally is.
Off topic but I hate that that phrase is backwards. If you have a cake you can eat that cake or you’re in the process of eating it (“having cake”). If you eat a cake you can’t then have it other than having it in your belly.
I know I’m being pedantic and off topic, but you’re getting downvote to hell so what’s it matter?
It’s it “having” as in owning it? “I have a cake”.
You can’t eat a cake, and then still have it.
That’s what I’m saying, yes.
Financial institutions in Japan ask the same thing. It is because Americans have to pay tax to American even when they don’t live in America. It just means there is more paperwork apparently.
Yup, I had no idea how fucked you guys were with the taxes thing until I learned you had to declare it twice if living abroad
Luckily I’m not one of those guys haha
It’s not that funny tbh, they’re people being treated poorly by their government
And yet they keep voting for anyone that likes to treat people poorly. I don’t know what to think anymore.
That’s a really hasty (hazy?) generalization of the US. The 50501 riots should tell you that a large fraction of Americans are not for this, but their heavily gerrymandered voting system shackles them to it
That’s only if you make more than 100k, just for additional information.
But they still have to report it, even if it is below.
And those forms are no joke.
Probably the usual “US deals with foreigner” type of forms. Which threaten horrible consequences if you enter something wrong while at the same time offer only the letters a to z, digits, and a few interpunctation signs. Which means that I cannot enter my correct address in such a form. And for other people it is even worse, like people using Asian languages.
american in europe here,
this is true. it’s very nearly impossible to open a bank account. There is exactly one bank in Switzerland who allows americans to open accounts, UBS. So far no banks in france have allowed me to open an account, even though I have a french residency permit. This makes it nearly impossible to take loans to buy things like houses or cars. Basically life here is impossible because being american fucking sucks.
This is crazy to learn about. Afaik no Americans in the UK have ever had issues opening bank accounts, even students.
Open an account at Service CU out of NH. Designed to work in Europe (IBAN, free foreign ATMs, etc). Everyone who works for the state department gets it, and afaik it’s open to the public.
iban thing is nice, do you know if you can finance cars or homes? right now i have to have to drive around a beater because no european bank = no loan
I’ve used ServiceCU for more than 20 years and yes you can buy cars and such through them
thanks! I’m going to check them out.
Never tried that. Worth emailing their rep probably.
You have residency, but do you have an official French ID, like a police ID? In Finland at least the residency permit does not count as a valid ID and you have to get a separate one (like a driver’s license or police ID) in order to for example open a bank account.
That’s crazy. I never had any of these issues living in Japan. Why does the EU make it so much harder than Japan does?
I might be wrong but it could be because America has uhh integrated itself with Japan pretty well ever since they capitulated to the Burgers in WW2.
Too many people wants to live in EU, so they limit it the best way they can figure out.
Unfortunately that is not a very good way.
Incredibly better than what US is currently doing, but still not great.
Renounce your citizenship.
I want to add that renouncing your citizenship also isn’t a valid option for many during the stages they talked about
One of the hard requirements for renouncing your citizenship is having citizenship in another country, and that is easier said than done in many countries. Like for example, Canada, you have to be a perm resident in the country for four years and also have lived there for the past six, Mexico requires 5 years. most of the EU has 5-10 years as their resident requirement.
And that’s also ignoring the cost that they require of a citizen to renounce their Citizenship. It’s 2300+ USD to do if you manage to get it first try, and that can be denied still.
Once you are established somewhere else as a citizen, fully agree. But that’s defo easier said than done.
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i don’t have a second citizenship to fall back on, so i’d be stateless. also, i can’t afford to since you have to pay all the taxes on potential income for the next 10 years or something
Only people who make more than 200k/year or have more than 2 million in unrealized taxable assets have to pay an expatriation tax.
There is no paying future taxes as that’d be asinine.
TIL, i thought i read that 10 year tax thing somewhere. probably just bs i saw online and didn’t look into it
I would absolutely talk to an embassy or at least an international tax professional before making decisions and not rely on Lemmy.
You only have to pay taxes for 10 years after expatriation if you set foot on US soil for more than 30 days during that period.
It’s not discriminatory. They don’t have any legal obligation to serve citizens of foreign countries. Citizen of USA isn’t a protected class. When they do serve American citizens it triggers a whole lot of regulatory work, and it’s understandable they don’t want to do that unless you’re a high net worth individual (ie they make enough profit to cover that cost)
It’s not discriminatory.
I mean it quite literally is discriminatory, but it’s legal and justified discrimination.
Good point.
The rule is not just for US citizens, but for a specific category called “US Person”, which is broader, and I think it includes anyone with any tie to the US. I believe having American parents, having had US citizenship even if you renounced it, or having had a greencard, also count. Though I don’t know the exact rules.
The rule is way too broad, and you can’t get rid of it. I’ve heard of people who’ve never set foot in the US who discovered later in life that they were US Persons, and it sucks. Their banks force them to comply because otherwise the bank can’t do business with the US.
They do have an obligation to serve their own citizens. The US double tax reporting bullshit does apply to dual citizens.
I hate to recommend the evil empire, but there’s a very good sub on this topic called r/AmerExit. Sometimes a community is too niche to exist on the Fediverse, and one must hold one’s nose and visit Reddit for certain content.
AFAIK this has to do with US tax law and how it applies to income earned by US citizens abroad.
I have never answered yes to this, but would be surprised if it were impossible or even considerably harder for US persons to open bank accounts. I always thought this just triggered slightly different rules for the bank?
Lots of non-American banks don’t want to deal with the rules, so it’s easier for them to just say that they won’t open accounts for Americans.
yeah I have eu citizenship and can’t open an account in europe. Now I can if I am resident to the particular area. I think europe is losing a big opportunity as I would not be surprised if quite a few us people would not mind having a bit of euros in a better run banking system just in case. They should tell the us to shove it with whatever laws or treaties prevent this.
Nah, all eu countries will honor their tax treaties with the us. If the us gov/irs wants to fuck over their citizens that’s your problem.
well and lost opportunity. What makes a reserve currency is people keeping accounts in that currency.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Wait… You didn’t know off-shore bank accounts are only for the rich and powerful?
Downvotes likely from non-Americans. Europeans specifically. They like to downvote stuff about America and Americans on Lemmy. A common prejudice on Lemmy, unfortunately.
If you mention (and especially if you complain about) downvotes, you’re gonna receive them from everybody. That’s just how it is. It’s fake internet points, they don’t matter.
This is also very true. OP may have picked up a few “Hate Followers” too, I know I have picked up a few along my time on the internet. They just can’t be bothered to use the block feature, I guess. Or they think they are getting back at them.for some reason, which is pretty sad if someone thinks fake internet points matter that much.
I remember when I used to have a Reddit account that had Hate Followers, I would make a post or comment that would almost always end in a high positive vote count, but in less than 60 seconds of posting it the vote count would be zero for like an hour before the vote count turned positive lol. Always had one or two comments from the same accounts that werent even related to whatever I was talking about. I used to get a good chuckle out of it.
Downvotes likely from non-Americans. Europeans specifically. They like to downvote stuff about America and Americans on Lemmy.
Thanks for reminding me, I almost forgot to.
EDIT: lol i am now wondering what are people are downvoting for? You dont like that fact, so you downvote whoever told you that fact? Some reactions are hilarious
Perhaps, just maaaybe there’s a social climate attributed to current events that makes this post more of a, “no shit Sherlock” kind of post. 🙄
Low hanging fruit and all that.
Also, being butthurt about downvotes is cringe as fuck, go back to reddit.
I am not on reddit, you seem to keep inferring random stuff lol go back to sleep
If you’re not American, why are you telling the institutions that you are?
Huh? Where i said that
My question was genuine. You wrote:
they ask me if I am american? If yes, they won’t even open accounts/ give me insurance etc…
And my misunderstanding is genuine? I dont know how you derived that fact from what i posted lol i never stated “i am american” to anyone, because it is not only factually false but also would bring me problems
How do you know that they won’t open an account if you say yes? Do you know people who have had this experience, or did the banks tell you that they would not provide these services for Americans?
The insurance told me, but you can google that information yourself, or simply call any bank in france usually they do have english speaking line
I believe you. My understanding of your post:
- I’m not American
- But I’m sometimes asked if I’m American
- If “yes”, I face repercussions
Hence my question. That’s all.
Alright maybe my English is at fault. “If yes” meant to be: when I asked “what d happen in the hypothesis I was american”?
Well, my reading comprehension as also not the best some times so I’m definitely not innocent here. I can take things to literally (and not understand sarcasm). Thanks for clarifying. I hope I didn’t cause offence.
They propably slip explanation to the question like “Good, then we can open the account”
